Open Doors: How One Panamanian Woman Walked From an Orphanage to the United Nations | Isabel

0:00 Welcome to the Human Experience, a podcast about the stories we live out every day and the importance of championing the vulnerability and courage of the storyteller. I'm your host, Jennifer Peterkin, and it was through my own lived story of experiencing domestic violence that this podcast was created. By traveling the globe and interviewing each guest in person, I am convinced now more than ever, that stories have the power to change the world. Thank you for being here. In a world full of noise, to listen with intention is an act of resistance. So happy to have you with me today in Panama, interviewing you in your home country, home city where you live, and so excited to hear your story. Thank you so much. I'm excited to have you here.

0:50 Like, I was. I was all excited about, like, months ago. I've been planning to have you here. I feel like an ambassador to, like, my own country. I feel like you are too. You're doing a great job as well. So, yeah, you've been showing us around and taking us to eat great food and see the sights. So it really is a privilege when a local person is willing to share their country with you because. Or their city. There's so much to see. And so when you have somebody that's willing to kind of narrow down the focus for you and say, this is. This is what you need to focus on. This is what you need to see to really get the flavor of the culture in the, you know, few days that you're able to visit a place. So thank you so much. You're welcome. But that's not what we're here to talk about right now.

1:44 We're here to talk about your story. So if I ask you, where does your story begin? Where would you start? That. I guess my story begins when I was younger, maybe 12 years old. I've always been like, I. I don't know how to say polyphysetic. Like, I do lots of stuff. So. I used to do robotics when I was younger. I learned how to do programming when I was 12, I guess. I loved singing, writing. I love poetry, reading. So I, as a child, I would go to all sorts, sort of contest, and I would win them all.

2:26 And my grades were also amazing. I. I love studying. I loved studying and I still love it. So I've been very particular, very different from people around me since I was very young. Yeah. And so you. You grew up in Panama? Yes, but where in Panama? So I was born in Veras, which is the central part of Panama. That's countryside. Yeah. I lived there until now, actually. Now that I Think of it. I just. I moved to Panama City couple months ago. Like, seven, eight months ago.

3:08 Yeah. So actually, living in the city here is a big change for you. Yes, yes. Like, I've been around the city before because we would come and visit, but I've never lived here, so I don't even know the streets, which is why I use ways most of the time. Yeah. So you grew up in the city or you grew up in the country, not the city. And what was growing up like for you? I guess when I go back, I was raised in a family with lots of problems. Those that you carry on, like, from generation to generation. Half my family is Colombian. My mother is Colombian. My mother's side is Colombian. I. I never met, like, I met my grandmother when I was 2 years old.

3:55 Never saw her again. But I know my mother was raised with, like, she had a lot of challenges. They lived in, like, a very poor area. She couldn't have education. Her mother wouldn't be around to take care of her. It was a difficult situation. So when she moved to Panama, she started a new life, and she tried to do the best, but the thing about it is that you didn't even notice when you're carrying, when you're repeating patterns. So physical abuse, emotional and verbal abuse is something that I grew up with, and it affected me a lot, and my brother, too, my brothers. So When I turned 14, 15, I was taken by our authorities, the. The kind of authorities that are in charge of children and.

4:53 And young adults. And they first, they sent me to a foster home, which was like, couple of houses away from where I used to live with my biological mother. And it. It was a neighbor and it. So foster home is not a thing in Panama. Actually, that's a thing in us. We do not do foster home here. It's really hard. Adoptions are not so common in Panama. But the judge saw. She saw the situation, and she was like, I need to do something. And a neighbor just said, well, I can take her. And she did. And that only lasted like a couple of months, like three, four months, honestly. But it changed my life completely. So I was living in the same town, in same neighborhood, same everything, and at the same time, it was all different. So Since I've been 14, I been around judges and police officers and all that.

5:54 Like, that's been my life. I suffered a lot. It wasn't easy. The problem was mainly my biological mother. So I never agreed with the ways I was being treated and physically abused and verbally and emotional abuse. So I. I Just went against all of that. And I, I, like, I knew that that was not right and I was young, but I just. I don't know, I started. And this is going to sound hard, but I started hating her little. Like every time she would like, hit me or do wrong. Like she. Once I went to school and so the. How do you call this? The belt. Belt. The belt.

6:46 So she hit me with that and I had this like, mark, like here. Oh, on your face. On my face? Yes. And I went to school like that and it was worse. So I was also hit with, you know what you hit horses with? A whip? Yes. Oh, geez. Yes. And. And the, like the broomstick. That too. And everything that she could find. And I would, like. I remember putting my hands, like in front of me just to like, if I was gonna be hit. Like, it better be my hands because it hurts less. But every time she would do that, I promised myself I was gonna hit her even more until I didn't care about her at all. And one day it happened. It just happened. And I didn't want to be around her. And she was fine whenever she was out of home, sharing with other people and friends. But once she got home, she brough all of her problems. And she.

7:38 So let's say it was. She was frustrated and stressed about her life and having to take care of two children, and it was too much for her and she didn't know how to handle. And the way that she was treated was the same way she was treating me and my brother. So she thought that was educating me. She thought that was doing the best for me and my brother. And I didn't understand it. She would never talk about her upbringing because it was too hard for her. So I never knew the truth until now that she's able to talk a little bit about. About it. But she, like you would ask her, like, how was your life when you were a child? Like your gr. Like your. Your mom, your father? And she would not talk about it. So she just repeated the same patterns. And it was pretty hard. Like, I have a lot of stories like that and the authorities, one day they called the. So I think it was because my brother didn't know how to handle, like, anger issues. And he's like one year younger than me and he tried to. How to strangle that. Yes.

8:43 Well, he didn't try. He did. Yeah. No. Me. You? Yes. Oh, gosh. So I. I just. It was too much to handle. It was. I was. It was. I was so hurt. I couldn't stand it anymore. And they called the police, the neighbors called the police, and I was taken. And when I explained to the judge all the things that I was leaving in the situation, and I didn't want to know anything about my mother, like, I didn't even, I remember that I didn't even call her my mother. She was just a stranger to me. And I would go to school and they would ask me about my mother, and I'm like, I don't know who you're talking about. Yeah. You know, and then they sent me to the foster home when I. So foster homes are not a thing. And this neighbor that offered to have me, they were not prepared to have someone. Like, they, like the judge didn't do the, like the, you know, they should, like, check background and all that. None of that. It was, like, easy way to go right there because I had an option and I didn't have much.

9:49 So this neighbor takes me in, but she wasn't. I'm not like, I am grateful for all of the things that she did, but she was not prepared to have me. And I remember that she started feeling like she owned me. And I was living in the same neighborhood, like, same everywhere, same school. She felt like she owned me somehow, as the months were, like, passing by. And once I said hi to another neighbor. Like, I stopped by and I walked and I say hi. When I came back to the forestry home, and it was two houses away from that one, it was pretty close, but I was greeting someone that, it's my neighbor, and it's also someone that I know. And when I came back, she just, she wasn't happy about it. And then she pushed me and she started having this weird ways. And the judge didn't think that was right back then.

10:48 They tried getting me into the orphanage. That was the first option. But the nuns wouldn't accept me at first because when they told, when the judge tells them about me, they're like, this is a case that we've never seen before, really. I mean, they've seen abuse girls. They've seen all cases, really, like, truly vulnerable situations, like girls that have been physically abused and all of that. But me, I am a very particular story. And that's why they remember me. They still remember me because of that. And they wouldn't accept me back then.

11:28 I was depressed. Like, I would go, like, I would have to go to the, the government offices. I would escape. Sometimes I wanted, like, I wanted to end with my life. I, I, I tried several times, and it didn't work because I Know, God was there with me. But I tried several times and I wasn't successful. So I. They diagnosed me with depression, so I had to take medicine for like two years. And the nuns were not prepared for any of that, you know, and when they told them about my personality, they were definitely not prepared for that. They never, like, not even when I. When they accepted me, they. They never got to be prepared for that. Finally, the judge makes an agreement with the nuns and they accepted me.

12:22 So they moved me before graduation time. That was high school graduate. Well, No, I was 15, I guess. And they, they sent me to the orphanage. And I remember that the two, like a social worker, like a social worker and then a psychologist from the government entity, they took me to the orphanage and they left me there. And I. I love those two people. They're part of my story. And they helped me so much. And I have so many people to talk about that have helped me so much. And the nuns received me and I cried. And first night I felt orphan.

13:08 Like, I. I don't know how, but I, I remember being in this tiny. Because all the. Like, the beds are truly tiny, so only one person can fit in there. And I remember crying. And I remember that, that night, that first night, I thought to myself, I am feeling like an orphan. And I continue crying. Like, I don't. Like I'm not orphan. But that night I felt completely alone. I felt like I was completely alone. My faith was going through a really hard path. Honestly, at that moment, I didn't want to know anything about no Jesus, no God, because I thought, what have I done to you so that I. I was born in this family and I'm going through all of this. Like, what did I do? Like, like, aren't you supposed to protect me? Yeah.

14:00 So it was pretty hard, like, understanding why I was going through all that. And the days passed and I continued crying. It was 3am and I would wake up and the girls couldn't sleep. And one of the nuns, she just became very close to me or I got close to her, which might be different. And today I. I think she's like a mom to me. And she would take me everywhere she would go. And since I couldn't stop crying, she had to figure a way to get me out of bed because I wouldn't get out of bed. I wouldn't eat and the girls wouldn't treat me that well because.

14:44 So most of the girls in there are in all senses truly different from me physically. Like, I'm not the stereotypical orphan girl. Right. So they felt weird about me. And they, like, the little ones would come approach and talk to me a little bit, but the other, like, the. The ones my age, they wouldn't want to talk to me at all. So it was pretty hard. So I wouldn't eat. I would just sleep. And then this naan one day, I remember this is one of my favorite gifts of all times. One of the things I'm most grateful for. This is a good memory. I was crying one eat. And she came to the room.

15:31 I was the only one in there. And she was holding something behind her bag. And she told me, if you come out and eat something, I have a gift for you. You have to come out and stop crying. And there's. There's always been something about her. Her name is Satrini. There's always been something about Satrini that makes her so special. She can convince anyone. She's so sweet and. Well, I did. I did what she said because I wanted to know what the gift was. She bought me two books. And that's not something that she would do for any. Like, I. That was the first time she was gifting books to anyone.

16:12 She went to the store and like, she knew exactly what I needed. If she had come with candy, no way. I'm not going to eat. Or. Or I'm not stopping. Stop stopping crying. But she came with two books. It was one from William Shakespeare, Sueno de Nano Chevrano. I don't know the title in English. And the other one was Panamanian writer. Okay, like author. And I. I can read books in one day. That's part of me. And she started with that and then she started taking me out with her and books and library and all that. And that's how she got me out of there. I mean, we struggled the next years with.

16:55 It wasn't easy. I was going through a harsh situation. But she found her ways. It wasn't always easy. So I started integrating a little bit. It was hard. I don't watch television because to me, reading books was more interesting. And I tend to isolate from people a lot, just go into my own zone. And I don't. I don't do well with people of my age. I do well with older people because I learn from them and I can. We can have interesting conversations. When it comes to people of my age, it's not so easy. It wasn't. I was 12 and I remember I didn't have any friends because of that. I was also an athlete. That's.

17:39 Yes. I used to compete running and I, it was a huge part of me. I, I did everything that I could. Yeah. Honestly, so, but at that moment, I, I was doing nothing. And I needed to fill my space with all of these things that I love and I couldn't because I was trapped in there. And you have to follow certain rules that I never cared about. I, I, I did my effort, first few days, and then they had to change, not me. It was, was hard. So I, I was trying to integrate with the girls, but it was hard. I tried, but I would prefer having a book while they were all eating. I would finish quickly and then start reading. They were all talking and I was in my own, like I was with all of them at the same time. I'm not. And I wasn't, like, I wasn't used to the system. So this, you have to wake 3:30am there's girls like waking up and they wake you up because they make noise I hate, Like, I don't, like, I dislike waking up that early. 4am, all of them up. Oh, not me. Because that's the system.

18:54 Because it's, that's how it is. So all of them up at 4am well, they have to get ready for school. And there's like 60 girls and there's like four bathrooms. So, you know, so that we all have time to get ready. That's the time that they must wake up. But not me, no, that wasn't me. And then you have to go to pray in the morning. And church was next to our dormitories, so there was no way of avoiding it. And I found a way to avoid it. Then praying before breakfast, then eating breakfast and you know, going to school, taking the buses.

19:43 When we were back from school, we would have to like eat lunch, pray. We couldn't sleep. We had to go straight to studying and doing homework. And then 6pm, then we go take a shower, all of us. And then we do dinner time. And then you go to sleep and you go through the same routine. And if there's something that kills me is routine, I cannot stand it. Plus I needed to sleep. So for four years I felt drained. Like, I, I, I don't feel like that anymore.

20:24 But I, I felt constantly drained with this need to be sleeping all the time. I was tired all the time. I, I wouldn't wake up. 4:00am I waited until they were all ready and I told the nun, like, I, I can't, like I need to sleep. I was the only one studying science for high school because you can here in Panama. You can go into different, like, concentrations. I don't know how to say it, but yeah. Yeah. So I went for science, and when it was church time in the morning. Because at first I would go to school in the afternoon, so I had to go to church in the morning.

21:06 And I did it for a couple of weeks, and then I wasn't feeling it. So I told the nun that I'm not feeling it. Whatever I'm saying in there, it's not coming out of my heart. I don't want to go anymore. And they got into this big fight, like all the nuns, and they were, like. They were not accepting that. And we had a lot of problem. And then I would. When it was church time, I would be sleeping under my bed so that they wouldn't find me until they found me. And then I had to find another spot. Okay. And then I just didn't care. I would sleep. And they were mad, and I felt bad about it, but I needed to sleep.

21:47 Not that I'm proud of not following rules, but I kind of. I'm so sorry. I. I kind of am. And now they laugh about it now. They're like. They look at me and they're like, it was all worth it. Good. But it took us a lot. So that's how I changed. I took school then in the morning so that I wouldn't have to go to church in the morning. Gotcha. I could skip that. Yeah. Yeah. That's the reason why I changed timing. And then I started doing better at school. I started. I. I was back, like, at being myself again and studying and being the best and having this thing about academically, you know, what they call, like, the academic weapon thing. I was back to being that.

22:37 I was back to being top high, like, top student. And the nuns were. I was the only one. Like, I had the highest grade at the orphanage, and they were happy about it at school. Everyone loved me. And then slowly I started. One day they were having, like, a public speaking contest. And I say, I'm going. And the nuns didn't know. And I won't. I mean, I trusted myself. I won't. And when all the professors knew that I was from the orphanage, like the Spanish professors that they had to tutor me, they didn't want to. They all backed it back down. Because coming from an orphanage represent a problem that you are legally protected by the government, by state. And they have never handled a girl like me or from an orphanage. And one professor said, yes. And today she is family.

23:40 She trusted me. And we actually won the contest nationally and the nuns couldn't believe it. Like, they were amazed. They went and they were crying like they were more nervous than I was when I had to, like. Because there's, like, this part that you learn what you're saying, and then the next part is they give you a topic, and you just have three minutes and you have five minutes to talk about this topic. And they must sound really good in there, in front of everyone on stage. And I. I went for it. Yeah. And they started supporting me on this. But I was the only one at the orphanage, So I started advocating. This is the part that they didn't like about me, that I would start talking and whatever I didn't think was right, I would tell them, this is not right. I don't like this. You shouldn't do this. They were the authority. They were the nuns, and I didn't care. So I told them that the girls should be allowed to participate in sports, dancing, whatever they wanted if they had good grades.

24:43 And I started advocating for it. And that's how it all started. And that's how massive change started at the orphanage. And then one day, I started advocating for older girls being allowed to use makeup on special days. That was a fight. And the nuns had to turn everything around to make this happen. And they were saying it works. They were having internal fights between them because not all of them were agreeing with it, but it was working. The girls were having better grades because they were, like, they were forced to. If you don't have good grades, you cannot do sports, soccer or whatever. And then they started singing. And I started my own theater group at the orphanage. Then I started my own mariachi grove at the orphanage.

25:35 And I started singing for now, for Mother's Day, I would take the girls and me singing all to the government officials, and we would sing for them, and we would bring all this. Then I started my gymnastic. Gymnastic class. I couldn't do, like, a lot. I hurt my back then, and I couldn't do much. I used to run and all that, but I could still teach the girls. So I would create this whole artistic scenery to receive people, and they would all participate in. And that's how I started blending in. You started blending in by taking the lead and creating? Yes, that's how it is.

26:21 Most of the time. I take the lead and I create. Every time that I'm able to create, I. I try to make it like I try to make magic happen. But the nuns had a hard time because I was not like the other girls at all. I wasn't afraid to talk, to defend myself and also defend the other girls if something wasn't right. And the story is not all pink. I didn't want to be at the orphanage. I wasn't extremely happy about being in there. I was sad. I felt alone. When Christmas time. When it was Christmas time, New Year's Eve, whatever. We would all like, all the girls, we would all sit at the living room and cry all together. And I wouldn't stop crying and feeling alone. My favorite day for church was Sunday. The only reason it was my favorite is because the community could. That day, community could come, and I would see a lot of new people coming into church, and I didn't feel so alone. And I would always expect to see someone from my past, like family or someone to come in and to feel somehow loved. That never happened, not very often. So I felt alone most of the time. But then I grew up. I had the best grades. I worked so hard to be perfect at everything. It was a

27:52 big pressure. Still is. Sometimes. People expect a lot from me, and, yeah, that's how it was growing up for me. Wow. So your brother stayed with your mom then? Yes. Okay. And you never lived with your dad. That wasn't an option for you? No. So my dad has been amazing all the time, but my dad didn't take good decisions, so he couldn't care for, like, he couldn't take care of me or my brother, like, economically, he couldn't. And he wasn't just prepared. So it wasn't an option. But he was the only one that was allowed, actually. And he would visit. Like, he would do anything to visit every 15 days or. Oh, wow. Sometimes once in a month, or he would call. Like, he. He was the only one that was actually very consistent. Consistent about it. Even if at first I. I was so hurt by my entire family because I felt abandoned by all of them. Yeah. And I didn't want to know about him or anyone else, but I remember him crying and suffering a lot. And he tried and tried and tried until I was like, well, we're stuck together.

29:19 And I remember he did fight for me, like, very few people have fought for me. He did. So your dad fought for you, which is a huge deal. But, you know, there were instances beyond his control that he couldn't take care of you by himself. So you had mentioned foster care isn't a thing here. So it's basically be with your family or be in an orphanage. Is that the option? Yes. Very few cases. And is it because the government doesn't Want to step in to separate families? Or is it because, like, even when they need to, or is it because, like, culturally, it's just not a thing to have a lot of families giving up their children. There are several factors. First, Panama is pro family. Family is the base of society.

30:15 It's the foundation. I'm sorry, for society. So government is going to try to reunite kids with their family. Even if the situation is bad, they're going to try. Unless it's really, really bad, which is mostly what hap. Mostly what is the case for most of the girls at the Orphish. Panama is not a place for people adopting or. Or being a foster home. They can barely survive themselves. They, like most of our people, don't make enough money, so they. They can barely take care of their own family.

30:56 So, no, people don't offer to. To have these kids at their home. It's truly rare. And our authorities try to prevent. So there's certain risk about giving kids to people that are not their family. Sure. Something happens, it's their fault. Any. And it's a big deal. Panama is a tiny country. Whatever you want on the news, believe me, it's easy to get it there. And the whole country gets all. It's a scandal and it goes crazy. So government doesn't want that. Yeah. So for so many reasons, it's very few cases. It happens. It's not so common. Yeah. It's really interesting to know how cultures and countries deal with these issues that are going to come up regardless of how many things you have in place to fight against it. Right. And so that's what happened. That's where you fell into, like the crack you fell into. And the other girls that were at the orphanage with you. Yes, yes. But this whole thing came about, you know, I'm in Panama right now because a good friend of both of ours met you through her sister who lives in Pennsylvania because you were living in Pennsylvan. So how did you go from an orphanage in Panama to actually kind of the middle of nowhere, Pennsylvania, here in

32:28 Wilkes. Wilkes Barre, Pennsylvania, in the middle of the state? Whenever I'm asked that question, and it's very often first thing I say, it's God. It's my heavenly father. There's no other way to explain it. I know he prepared me for that. If I had not gone through all of the things I went through, shouldn't be here, I would have not gotten there. Well, I had good grades and I did a lot at school and I won lots of awards and perfect student Liked by all professors. Very popular. Not the kind of popular that we see in movies. I was sort of like, those are really good students. And then they just, you know, that popular. Not the pretty ones, no. So I was at the orphanage.

33:22 It was October 11, 2019, and someone came in. Her name was Marcoba Concepcion, former minister for social development in Panama. It was pretty high authority and she was visiting first. So the nuns that run like the orphanage also run like elderly home. Right. So Marcoba was this social development minister, was visiting the elderly home. And the nuns told her like, oh, a couple of blocks from here we have an orphanage, girls. It was Friday night, 8pm she could have gone to her hotel.

34:03 I'm sure she was tired of visiting lots of places that day. And she said, why now? Like, why not? So she. She came to the orphanage and the girls, as always, would receive people singing. I didn't want to sing for her. I was studying. I wouldn't come out, like I heard the, the noise and all, like, because the girls would get really hyped up and all that. And I. I wasn't into that. I was studying and I was like, I'm not gonna receive another, you know, government official that is just gonna come see things and kisses and then bye bye and never seeing them again. Yeah, I was enough for that.

34:44 But almost at the end, I was a little bit curious. So I went out. Not for singing, not at all. I wasn't singing for, for. For. For that kind of people that I thought I was meaning. I come out and I see this woman and she was everything. I wasn't expecting her to be simple. There was something about her. I think the thing that made me curious was her simplicity, the way she was dressed up. It was so simple. And the nuns, the nuns are and were very proud of me. So they would always introduce me too. And I had pictures of that day. And she only asked me two questions. I remember she asked me what my grades were like. She was surprised to know they were really good. And then she asked me what I wanted to do for the future, what I wanted to study, where I to wanted, like, what was my dream. And I remember I told her, I want to go abroad, I want to learn English and I want to study something related to chemistry or biology. She never promised anything.

35:48 She left that night. And I thought it was just like one of those politicians that come and go. As always, I didn't believe in her, honestly. And I had forgotten about her until it was December, same year, 2019, and I was about to graduate And I received a letter from the institution, the government institution that was in charge of institutionalized girls, including me. And the letter said that I had three days to leave the orphanage. And I, I cried those three days because I, back then, I didn't know how to solve my problems. So my way of solving problems was bed and cry. I mean, that's a pretty big problem. Three days is not a lot of notice for to leave your home without a plan.

36:36 I mean, I was 18. I tried planning, but the nuns wouldn't help me plan because that's why I, I get so anxious. And that's something about me. I get anxious about future. So I start planning and having all these options just to prevent things from happening because I. This was what happened. It traumatized me. Yeah. And I didn't know how. To me, most important thing was studying. And I didn't know how I was going to do, to study or I, I imagined myself living under a bridge. Like, I, I imagine every single, like, situation happening. And I, to me, I couldn't count on my family. Like, to me, I was alone.

37:20 Like, I, I knew I had family and I couldn't think of them. Like, I couldn't trust them. I, I would not go back to them. I would not have them. Like, to me, I was alone. That's how it felt. I was alone against the world. And it's always been like that. So I cried. I. I don't know, like there was nothing that I could do. I mean, there probably was something that I could do, but I, I was so desperate. And the third day that I had to go out, someone, I think the nuns found a way to contact Markova, Social development minister. And I didn't know about it. And she found, like, contact through her contacts and doing networking. She found an apartment I didn't have to pay for. She found a place for me to live for a couple of weeks. And since then she's been like, like on top of everything about me, and she was taking care of me, even if we didn't know each other.

38:27 So for a month I had a place and it was graduation time. December 19, 2019. I guess I didn't want to go to my own graduation. I was so depressed because, yes, I had an apartment, but I was like, no, what do I do? Like, how do I continue? I'm alone, I don't even know how to cook. The nuns didn't told me how to. They didn't teach me how to cook. And how did I go to the bank? Or, like, I've never been out. Yeah. Like, I never had the chance to go to a quinceanera party or go out with friends. So everything that I would do, I was 18 and I was out of the walls that I knew and everything that I was going to do, like, if I was going to my bedroom, I would call the nuns and I'm like, I'm going to my bedroom and like, ask for permission. That's all I knew how to do. The professors from my school and all the people around that I never thought about, like, I never thought they would love me so much when they knew about the situation. The, like, the school principal and, and his wife brought food. They. They do grocery shopping for me. And the other one took me to the doctor because I needed to go and I didn't know how to. And the other one bought me clothes because I didn't have much, honestly. And they were all like, I. It just

39:58 surprised me. I felt so loved. And I have a problem accepting things from others. Help, like accepting help from people or people paying for me. I feel like it. I, I am great at giving and I love it much more. But when it comes to accepting from people, I have a huge problem. I don't, I don't do well with that. I'm working on it. And it, it's part of trauma thing. You don't feel deserving or, you know, or you feel like you bothered people. And I know it's a trauma response that I have to work on. And then they all started helping me and I wasn't alone, like. And the day of my graduation, I didn't want to go. I was so sad. And everyone started insisting on me going. And I was like, well, you know, let's. Let's go. And the nun was extremely, like, pushy about it and she wanted me to go. And I didn't know.

40:58 So that day on the line, walking up to take my seat and I see a helicopter come down. And all of a sudden from the helicopter comes president of Panama back then. His name is Laurentino Cortizo Cohen. And the line breaks exactly where I am for him to pass. And he was passing, but somehow he saw me. He passed through and then he came back. I think he. So he had seen pictures of me and then he recognized me and he came to say hi and then he went to the stage and I, I was like, oh, this is just, you know, this is so nice. What I didn't know is that he was there for me. So turns out he had gone there for me and I didn't know. And they called my name on stage to give me my diploma, but that was in the order. Like, I was supposed to wait for a few people because I was. I had really good grades, but I wasn't valedictorian, so I wasn't supposed to go first. And then they called me and I thought it was a mistake.

42:07 I didn't. Like, they had to call me like three times. And I was like, like, are you sure? And I even got confused. I was so nervous. I got confused and I went the wrong way. And I get there and he gives me my diploma. He gives me full scholarship. And he announces full scholarship in front of the whole school, more than a thousand people. And he tells me that from that point on, he was going to be my family. And I was crying. And the first thing I could do was telling him about the nun that was there. And I was like, that's the nun that is like my mom. And we had pictures.

42:49 And he hugged me. Me. And my life changed right there after that. I was talking to ministers, government officials for the scholarship. I had to travel to the city. And I didn't have a way moving around. I didn't know the city. So he would have his drivers and presidential palace, like, drivers and cars. So I felt so weird because I had to change cars. Apparently they have like a protocol or something. So I had to change cars. And they were pretty big change car every now and then. Oh, wow. They would take me everywhere. Then Marcoba was in the middle of everything and I just didn't know. And then she. She's the one that connected. She's the one that connected. Okay. Because she was.

43:31 She was working with him. Like, she was close. Yeah, she's friend of him and she was working. But that's how he knew about you. Yes, that's how he, like. Because you didn't apply for this scholarship? No. Okay. No. They just gave it to me. Wow. And my dreams came true from that moment. I was on the news, radio, interviews, TV interviews. I was a little bit overwhelmed, but I do well with cameras, I guess, sometimes. And my life changed one day I was at the presidential palace, and I was like, the president, like, stood up and he gave me his seat. And I wasn't even prepared for that because I didn't think I was going there that day. And I had to give a speech to ministers. And all I could think about was the girls that I left behind. And I told them, I am leaving to make my dream come true and study.

44:26 But I'm not living in peace unless I know that the girls that follow me, they are going to have the same opportunity. They can continue studying. If not, this won't help at all. You have to look that way. You cannot forget about those children. And I gave this truly big speech that I don't remember. I know what the topic was about. Everyone loved it. To date. Like, like to the date. Markova would tell you that was like, top speech. Like, wow, awesome. I don't know, because I wasn't prepared. So I, I, I don't really know what I say. Yeah. So President Panama was telling me that when he went to study to Texas US when he was younger, he, it was too cold for him, and he had trouble with that and he didn't want me to go through that. So his wife took me to the mall. And I couldn't, Like, I was shocked. I wasn't processing things because they were happening all so fast.

45:27 So imagine me walking in the mall in front of everyone with first lady of Panama. And she would tell me like, oh, wear this. And I want you, I want you to try this. And I would come out and she was like, oh, that looks cute. And whatever, you know, like that sort of interaction. And it was not just. It was first lady of Panama. Yeah. And they bought all clothing for winter because I didn't have anything. I didn't have money or nothing. So they bought all clothing for winter. I received tons of invitations. I also met Erica, and there at the. Erica Ender's a Latin Grammy Award winner. Huge here in Panama. And I met her again at the Presidential Palace. And I connected with lots of people through my story.

46:17 And then I, I left. That's how I, I was sent for the first time. I took an airplane alone. I had no idea what was waiting for me. I didn't even read the information. I had no idea. Like, I didn't know the university I was going to. I could have picked any university. And I saw a group going to Wilkes Wilkesburg. And I, I was so overwhelmed by so much. I didn't know I was a child. So I, I was like, oh, I go with those guys. Yeah, I, I'll go there. And I don't regret it. MIT or Harvard can never, never be better than the experience that I had at Wilkes University and the people that I met. Yeah. So I, A month after getting out of the orphanage, I was in the States. Wow.

47:02 And I didn't know the language. I mean, I knew I was pretty good at grammar and writing and all that, but I I had never had people speaking to me in English. At first it was really hard, and I. I didn't know how to speak English. Like, I could say a few words, but put the whole thing together. No. And I got there and I saw snow and I fell in love with Pennsylvania and. And my journey began. And I am so grateful and so blessed. And what did you study in? Biochemistry. There you go. With a minor in biology and a research project on organic semiconductors.

47:43 Wow. Did you come back to Panama at all while you were in the U.S. yes. Okay. Yes. I would come back for holidays. Okay. I would try to. Yes. Oh, that's good. So you at least had an opportunity to see. It's not like you didn't see your family or anything for four years. No, actually on those, like, five years, I worked on building from scratch. Like, I had so much to work on, but I knew I had to forgive. I knew I had to let things in the past and try to understand why people act like they, like, do the things they do. And I wanted to be the change. So I heard from someone that if you want to see a change in the world, you. You gotta be that change. And I said, well, my dream is to have a family.

48:34 I. I don't want to feel this alone. And I don't want anyone to cry about me. I don't want my biological mother to, because. And, like, deep inside she felt bad. I don't want anyone crying for me. I don't want anyone. I don't want to have this live in which I don't talk to you. And, you know, I don't want this for other people either. So I gotta be the change here. And of course, it's not just my part. They also did a lot of work, but slowly I started coming back and trying to interact a little bit and find, again, a place for them in my life. Maybe not the place that they think they deserve, but a place. Yeah. And I started doing that. Wow. So I was working on studying and then building, and sometimes the. The. The physical distance is helpful and almost necessary to do that. Right. Like, it.

49:33 It does make a difference. When you aren't having to survive these interactions day to day, you're. You have the physical distance to kind of work through and process some of this stuff so that you can put it in a different place and you can, you know, with boundaries, have relationships with these people. Yes. Yes. Time and distance were my best friends. Yeah. Yeah. It. I mean, it took me a long time to get past because I still have wounds yes. And I. And they were a lot more, like, open back then. And it was extremely hard, but I. I knew who I wanted to be. And then my first. My. My. My favorite Bible scripture is Corinthians 13, talks about love.

50:22 And I said, whatever I do, I'm going to concentrate on being that if God is love, I am going to be a reflection of love, whatever it takes. And I started to. Today, I. That's all I work on. Like, yes, I must work on being humble and all the other things. But that's main thing to me. I want to be light and love. Those are my two things. And if I want to see that in the world, if I want to see less fighting, less hate, less, like, all of this chaos, I want to introduce, like, have to introduce some love into the world and start with my own family. And then when that's done, I can start with other people.

51:03 So that's when my faith was being restored. And I still work on my faith every single day. But I couldn't see God's plan until I got there. And when I got there, I was like, you had a big plan. Like, I couldn't see it. But since then, I told him, from now on, I am working on trusting you through processes. Even if they take five years in an orphanage, I am working on trusting your plans. Yeah. And that's what I've been working on. I love that. Yeah. It is a process. And, you know, as somebody that has faith as well, I think that our faith should constantly be evolving because God is, you know, way bigger than our understanding can comprehend.

51:55 So as we learn new things, we should be applying that to what we know about God and the character of God. And God is love and all of those things in Corinthians. Patience, kindness, goodness. So you are in the United States. You're studying, you're going to college. What did you do after college? You mean, when did you go to New York? Oh, okay. So while I was in college, I also concentrated on being the best student I could.

52:36 Markova again, she never left my side. Today, she is one of the most important people in my life. Like, if I have to think of family, she's top priority. Wow. Always. So she was. She was always texting me, calling, are you okay? How are you feeling? You need medicine. In 2021, she was. She became Panama representative in UN, which was in New York, Manhattan. And later she also became president of the UN Women Board, which was huge. She's the third female Panama representative in un Most of them have been men and she is someone I look up to, and she was working there. And first she called me for Thanksgiving once, and she was like, we live three hours away from each other. You want to come? I'm alone. We can go around and whatever. And I took a bus to New York. First time I take a bus in US Because I wouldn't come. Like, I wouldn't go out of campus. Honestly, never.

53:53 So I go to New York, and she's working there. And actually, I didn't. I didn't finish school and then went to work with her during my vacations, I went to UN to work with her. So I met lots of ambassadors. I met about Agenda 2030, and I would go to the meetings. And I remember once she didn't tell me, and I was so badly dressed up, and, oh, my God, I learned my lesson there. And we. We went around New York. I lived in there with her for a couple of months, helping. And then I would always go back and visit her. That's awesome.

54:37 Unbelievable experience. I was there, and I. I couldn't believe it myself. Like, I'm like, un. And I'm not, like, outside, like, visitor. I am in. Yeah. Like, I am meeting the ambassadors. Like, I couldn't stop. Like, today to the date. I cannot stop being grateful. Like, so yesterday I was grateful. Like, I was so shocked that yesterday I finally had time to realize you are here. And to me, it's just a major Blessing. I think, 1. Your story has a lot to it, and there's a lot of things that people can take away from it. But I think one of the things that really strikes me is to not let opportunities pass you by.

55:27 If you have an opportunity to do something, even if it seems so scary, take it. Because you never know where it'll lead you. And you. You know, you never know. It doesn't mean you don't have to work hard, but take those opportunities because they could be, you know, the beginning of your next big thing, your next big adventure. Yes. That's. That's something that I tell everyone else. I'm afraid all the time. I am afraid of going on stage and singing. I am afraid of traveling. I just know I have to take it. If doors open, I. So I trust my intuition. I trust God. Yeah, he wouldn't open those doors for me if he didn't want me to go through. Yep. And I might not believe in myself all the time, and I might not be so confident, but being confident and believing in yourself is not something that you just do. Just start walking, and then you somehow get it in the process. Yeah.

56:28 So I take all the opportunities and I believe that he like, I believe that my heavenly father has promised lots of things to me. And I just, whatever door I see opens for me, I go through. And if they're not meant for me, they will close right away and I'll know it's not failure, it's redirection. Yeah. Amazing. I love it. So we're now back in Panama. How did you come back? Well, I finished my major, I finished studying. I had two options. I could go back, I could stay there or come back to Panama. I could work there for three years with a visa or a work permit.

57:16 And it was a truly hard decision. But I realized in the process that, yes, I love studying, I love science. I accomplished a big dream, all of it, even getting to see an apple tree, that was a big dream. And the snow. I did everything I could, but I knew that if I stayed, yes, I would be able to live well and have a good salary and all that and, but it would be more about me. And I wasn't meant for that. I've known since I was, I was nine years old and I already knew that. I have. People do not understand when I tell them I don't know, but I was meant for something and it's not something for me.

58:05 It's meant to serve others. I have a bit like, I, I don't know. There's, there's sometimes I repeat to myself, I was born for greatness, but greatness doesn't mean something extremely big. It's, it's, There are different kind of greatness, but mine, I know I was sent here to do something and it's not for me. And if, and if I stayed working as a biochemist in us it was going to be all about me and my heart, my soul would not be following the path that it's supposed to. It was a truly hard decision. But I, I, I told myself that if I was ever going to serve people, I, I got to start with my own people. Yeah, I love my country.

58:53 I never stopped missing it. I cry every time I see my people dancing or just the most simple thing like saying hi or like things that I know are different from other people that makes us different and special. And I came back and I am not working as a biochemist right now. And I am not. Sometimes I do doubt myself and trying to figure out what path I'm taking, but I know for sure. I am an activist. I am going to advocate and defend children in vulnerable Situations, especially institutionalized children and women rights. I, I believe a lot more in myself if I, I believe I could be president of Panama one day.

59:43 But I would only do that if, if it helps other people. Not for me, because it's, it would be a huge sacrifice. I don't know exactly where I'm going. I'm just. As doors open, I go through and they keep opening. Right now I don't have a clear idea in mind. The only thing I know is whatever I'm doing, I'm doing it with purpose. It must serve a huge purpose. It must change other people's lives. And I am also trying to help girls from the orphanage that I lived in. Yeah, I think that's beautiful. I don't think you have to or are even supposed to have it all figured out. I think, you know, you do kind of just have to take it a step at a time because otherwise it would be too overwhelming. Like if you were to tell your 12 year old self what you have gone through and accomplished, I'm sure you would have been like, there's no way that wouldn't happen.

1:00:45 Because you can't see, we can't see the trajectory of our growth. Right. So we just kind of have to experience it as it happens. But be open to having that growth and that evolving. I mean, yes, sometimes, I'm not gonna lie, it's frustrating because I had a dream my entire life and I was going, I was going for that, but I got it. And then I'm like, okay, then what's next? Yeah. And since like before I had a north, it wasn't clear, but I had a north. Right now I have so many things that I could do. Like I, I would love to get into music.

1:01:30 I would love to be a politician. Like so many things that I could do, I don't know what to do. So I have decided to start walking and trying. Good. I fully support that. As somebody that has said for years that, you know, I don't want to just be one thing. Like I couldn't pick. And so in my life I've, you know, I'm not working at the un, but I've done a lot of different things in my life because I want to have different experiences and different journeys. And that doesn't work for everybody and not everybody wants that, but that's okay. I am trying. The only thing I know for sure is that I must serve purpose. Yeah. That's the most important thing. That my soul feels like it's going through the right. The things that I was made for. Yeah, Yeah. I love it. So I have a question that I ask everybody at the end of each episode, which is through the lens of your experience, what does compassion mean to you? Let me try to find my own words.

1:02:33 One of my favorite manuscripts or readings. It's from Henry Drummond. It's called the. The Greatest thing in the World, I guess, or the Biggest thing in the World. And he talks about love and he defines love as a spectrum, like light. Have you heard about putting light through a prism? And light is composed of a lot of things, and all of those things together make light. Same way with love. Love is the major of all virtues, even a lot more.

1:03:17 I guess in the Bible it's described as a lot more important, not important, but it's bigger than faith and hope. If I'm not mistaken, the greatest of these is love. Yes, yes. So I think compassion is just part of the spectrum. It's just one of the virtues that when you put together with all of the other things that you can practice every single day, it creates love. So to me, compassion is looking at people, even if they have hurt you, looking at the child inside of them, looking at the wounded spirit, looking like, seeing through them. I know we cannot excuse people for what they do, but like, compassion is loving no matter what. Not receiving anything back, not expecting anything back.

1:04:16 And I. I have couple of people, even from abroad, that I love that way. Purely unconditional. To me, compassion is my. My people. Every time I see my own people in the streets, kids in very vulnerable situations, having compassion for what they're going through, but also having compassion for the people that we think are doing great and they're not. They have empty spaces. They might have a house and they might be economically fine, but there are empty spaces inside them. So compassion is just one of the virtues that when put together with all of other things, it makes love, which is the greatest of all virtues, the greatest of. Of all gifts.

1:05:13 It's God. It's just that. Wow. That was an incredibly profound and beautiful answer. Thank you. Thank you. I've loved talking to you. I've loved experiencing Panama with you. And I look forward to continue to do so for the next couple of days. But thank you so much for your time. I know it's valuable. You've got a lot going on, as we all heard. So thank you. You're welcome. I'm really happy to have you here. Like, I know it's part of a promise that God is fulfilling to me. Thank you for listening to the human experience. Everyone has a story, and I'd love to hear yours. So be sure to check out the show notes for more information about how to stay in touch, do good and love well.