0:00 Welcome to the Human Experience, a podcast about the stories we live out every day and the importance of championing the vulnerability and courage of the storyteller. I'm your host, Jennifer Peterkin, and it was through my own lived story of experiencing domestic violence that this podcast was created. By traveling the globe and interviewing each guest in person, I am convinced now more than ever, that stories have the power to change the world. Thank you for being here. In a world full of noise, to listen with intention is an act of resistance. Marina, thank you so much for sitting down with me in Panama City, Panama, today. Where you. Well, you're from Panama.

0:43 I just flew in about an hour ago. And so I'm so honored that you just came over to. To do this interview with me, to meet with me, and I'm so excited to hear your story. Thank you so much. My pleasure. So you're from Panama, but are you from Panama City? No, I'm from Panama West. Okay. And I'm actually half Panamanian because my mom's side is from Jamaica. Oh, my God. Half and half. Okay. And have you. Have you been to Jamaica then? No, actually. God, first I planning to travel there this summer. I mean, next summer. Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm planning, the summer coming up. Because I know you. You went to college in Pennsylvania.

1:23 Correct. And so you just recently moved back to. To the area. Exactly. I just. I went to the state in 2020 and I came back four months ago. Like, I used to come, like, for vacation. Yeah, it was like really short time. So, yeah, I just came to my country four months ago. It has been like a really hard transition because, you know, you. You get used to things. I left people there, especially my people from my church. So. Yes. Yeah, it's hard. It is hard. I. I imagine. So is Panama west rural? Is it a city atmosphere? It is. There is part that are rurals and there is part of our city. Okay, so it's like in the middle. Yeah, yeah.

2:04 Because you were in a pretty. It's not totally remote, but it's more country in Pennsylvania. Exactly. You weren't in a big city area. Let's just say that. Yeah. And here in Panama, where I live in Panama West, I live like in a principal street. Okay. So I was used to like to hear the cars, the bus in the morning, in the afternoon. And when I moved to Pennsylvania, I'm like, nobody is here making noise. The houses are like a mile apart. Oh, yeah. Sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. So if I ask you what is your story, where would you start? That wow, this is really interesting question. So I could say starting 2010 because I experienced the more one of the most people painful moments of my life when my biggest brother passed away was on October 2, 2010. I was getting ready to a party of a little boy next to me. Like my neighbor birthday. And my mom was excited, trying new clothes. This is for the party.

3:15 And suddenly one of my sister. Oh, by the way, we are five sisters. I'm the youngest. Wow. Yeah. So. So one of my sister approached to us screaming like hey, somebody say there is a boy that got shot in the store near us. And we all like, okay, we are all here. No, where is my brother used to call Junior. So where is Junior? So we all here. Where is Junior? And unfortunately when we went was my brother in the floor. There is a lot of version of that accident. They say, oh, we confused him. Like we actually know my brother what used to be Christian. We all are a Christian family.

4:02 So we like not until today. We don't know what happened. Yeah. But the police say, oh, what's that Confusion. So the. But it was the police. No, no, no, no. Another guy got you in every country. We got. Absolutely. You can't totally run away from it. Yeah. So I saw my mom running, screaming my boy, my biggest baby that I. It's okay if I cry. It is absolutely. It is. Because it's tough. It's tough to talk about this, but at my nine years old, I experienced pain, like actually pain. And I remember my mommy crying and saying, God, you gave my son to me and now you're taking him away and leaving all that situation was really hard. Especially because I used to be so attached to him. Seeing he was the oldest and I'm the youngest. So I was like his baby and was hard. But God is good. God is good all the time. So we move on. We keep trusting God, we keep going church. And in 2013, my other brother, because we five sister. We used to be five sisters and two brothers. So my other brother, the only boy left in the family, he used to work in a river.

5:23 And he also passed away because he got an accident in the river. And that one I think I felt. I felt the pain before with the first one, but with this one was like, oh no, I don't the God that my family represent me. I don't know how he's agree with all of this, you know. And being the youngest, I wanted to be like, oh, like the strong one. Like, oh, like seeing all my family broke with the second one. I didn't cry. I didn't cry because the firemans and the emergency, you know, was, like, looking for him in the river, like, for one day. And I always say, oh, I know they gonna find him in a tree. They're gonna find him. Like, I. I was with all my faith.

6:09 Yeah. And by the way, at the time he passed away, he just got, like, a baby of two months. Yeah. So I just was thinking in my knees and. And every time, say, God is good. Like, God already processed us as a family in 2010. I. I don't think he's gonna do this again. So, unfortunately, the next day, they found him dead. And I remember all my family, I was the one who told the news to my other sisters because I was there in the moment of everything when the emergency girl say, I'm so sorry. My sister was in the house cooking because they spent the whole day before crying scared because we didn't know if we want to find him dead or alive. So they were cooking and taking a rest. And also because we got our knees.

7:01 And when I got the news, my mom was, no, no, no. And I run, run. And I said to all my sister, like, they found him dead. And I remember that moment. They all left the house, and I was, like, alone in the living room of my house, crying alone, because they all left. They all left to the river, because the river was near our house. They all run. And I was alone in the house crying, like, for. I could say for 30 minutes, 15 minutes. And that moment, I cry. But something weird happened to my mind, like, oh, do you know the story about Lazaro in the Bible? Yep.

7:45 And I don't know, I said, oh, maybe God want to do a miracle. Like I was at that time. I was 12 years old. Yeah. Yeah, 12 years old. So I was like, oh, maybe God wants to do, like, a miracle. Yeah. And I say, no, he going to wake up. He going to wake up in Jesus name and all. Like, we here in Panama, the culture when someone pass away is that you are, like, for four days with the family in the house, you know, like, giving support, giving your condolence. So that's the way you do hot chocolate, like, for four days before the actual funeral ceremony. So on those four day, everybody was crying. My family from Jamaica came, like, my aunties. Everybody was, oh, my God. And I was like, God is gonna do it. He's gonna do it. Yeah. And the moment I cry again was in the moment that they were putting him, you know, in the air, like we do. Yeah. Oh, my God.

8:42 Omg. I was, I don't know how to explain it. I was the only one, like everybody was crying. But that moment when I saw that God like, why he's not God. This is your moment to do it. Yeah. Because things are gonna be more hard. So I start crying. I remember me like passing out. And my faith at that time scrambled a little bit. And I say, no, no, there's no way. There is no God. There is no way how God is agreeing. My niece is just two months old. We already, in 2010, we already lost. We already lost our big brother. How God is going all of this. So my faith was really in the floor.

9:30 I could say. And you know, but God is good all the time. So I spent a month with that in my mind. But what we could do without God. So I was a girl, said, guys, okay, I forgive you. And yeah. So after that we move on. My family keep the faith. My mom, now's a day. My mom preached to a lot of women that happened the same that she went through. Also my dad, my dad is evangelist. He preached in Venezuela, like in different countries, also different parts of Panama. And then like three or four years later, the pastor Big's daughter passed away. So my mom was like, also like, hey, you know what? You were there when I lost my. And now like God is gonna do it, you know. So my mom was. My mom is a living testimony that you could still love in God beside the hard situation that you like went through. So I could fight for my dreams. I say I will not suffer every. All my life. I will not acknowledge this like God. It's true that we have to go to hard situation.

10:48 But I want when is gonna be the happy end here. So I just started dreaming like in Big and study. And I become a really like smart and clever girl. I. I used to participate in everything, every contest. I. I say I am volunteer like for everything. I. I lost it like the account how many contests I. I have participated in high school, in second in secondary, in. In middle school, like a lot of. Because I wanna like, you know, I wanna sucks too. Yeah. And that's why in 2019 I got the second place in the whole high school of honors.

11:30 And one of the president of the scholarship here in Panama approached me, say, hey, you know what? You. You got a scholarship for like for your own degree in the United States. I said like what? Like, yeah, you don't have to pay for nothing. Everything is paid. You have to go there and study hard and come back here. I was like, omg. So God did it. And I went to the United States in February of 2020. Then the pandemic came. Oh my God was so hard. And I took advantage of that opportunity and I started preaching the gospel of God in the university. I remember winning like at least like 10 Panamanians for Christ. Like guide them to be safe. They got baptized, they start serving at church.

12:22 One is a dancer, another guy, he's in multimedia in the church. So I say, God, I thank you because my life was not perfect. I knew the pain since I was really young, but everything happened with a purpose. So I finished my degree in May of this year. Congratulations. Thank you. As a, a English teacher in a secondary education and also a Spanish, like a Spanish minor. And guess what? They gave me like a prize for the teacher of the year award. Wow. Yes. In the whole wils university.

13:03 And I was like, God, you're so good. Because I was with native Americans. Like I said, my English is no to like, not to purpose them. And I'm in another country, another culture. And yeah, they gave me the teacher of the year award. Everybody was like, oh my God. And God has been good. God has been so good. When I came here to Panama, I came with the dream of getting married. That's. Can I, can I? Yes. This is your story, girl. The whole thing. You don't have to ask my permission for anything. So I came after I graduated, everything. But I was like going out with a guy, he also is Christian. And we got together for almost five years.

13:50 He was in Panama, I was there, where we talked by video calls, phone calls, all of that. And he proposed me when I came last year here in Panama, in front of my family, everything. And so I just started the planification of the wedding and I spread invitation out, I paid for, for the ballroom, like everything was ready, even the, the food menu. Oh wow. And when I came here three days after that, after I arrived Panama, I received a new about him. And I say, I, I, I just cannot proceed with this. Was, was so hard for me. I say no. God, like how? Yeah, that's the only man I have loved in my whole life. And people from the state and people from Jamaica that pay like the flight to come to my wedding because our wedding was about like August and I came in June, so it was like just two months. And I cried so much.

14:52 I didn't eat that for almost a week, darling. My friend was there. But Romans, chapter 8, verse 28 say everything work for good for those who love the Lord. And I say, God, it's Okay, if this is your will, I will do it. I accept it. You had to break off the wedding. Yes, I did. It was so, so hard because I asked him for an explanation and he just said, oh, I'm not ready. I'm like, what are you talking about? Oh, so he didn't want to get married. Exactly. After he proposed me. Oh, gee. And I asked him like, why are you doing this? And he said, oh, you're gonna find another one.

15:38 You will see. And I was like, don't do that to me. I have people who already bought the flight to Panama. Yeah, but I bless him today. I forgive him. I bless him. I hope he got a wife and children and stuff. I could say that now because I cry already so much and I pray a lot to God. And also I took like psychology sections because God also, you know, you can pray, but also there is professional that can help you with. Yes. So I, I, I went to, to the psychologist and, and that helped me a lot of too. And you know what healed me? Keep focused on serving others. Yeah, that helped me a lot of because if you go and, and close your door and stay in your room and you go and see the pictures and that's not going to help you. Yeah. So I found my healing in serving God and serving others. And that's what I'm doing right now.

16:31 I'm serving. I have to, after here I have to go because I dancing church. So I have to go and dance and everything. And I have like a big, a big event congress in my. Nice coming. So we, we are like preparing for that. Very cool. So, yeah, so I think that's my story. Sorry for the accents and never apologize for that. God has been good. I think that it's, it's pretty incredible that you had such a crisis of faith at such a young age and that you talk about it. I think that's so important because I think something that we can get caught up in sometimes is like, well, I can't say anything bad or like, be mad at God because you know something's going to happen to me or I always have to be perfect with God. And it's like God already knows that you're not perfect. Right. So just the idea that like I remember being in therapy years ago and my, my counselors telling me, you can be bad at God, like he can take it. Like he's, he's big enough to take that, like to take your anger. You know, you, you don't sit in that. You have to move on. Yeah, but, but like, it's not gonna hurt God. And God already knows, right? God already knows you're angry, but, like, don't. Don't try to pretend you're not. I got you, right? So, yeah. I mean, I. I can't imagine what.

17:57 Going through that at such a young age, losing both of your brothers. But I also just think it's really important that you talk about the fact that there was a time where you asked that question, and it wasn't all just like, yeah, everything's fine because we have God. You know, it was pain and heartache and hardship. Of course. Of course I got mad to God many, many times with, like, with my last process of breaking up my wedding and stuff, I spent, like, almost two weeks that my sister came, like, hey, honey, you're gonna be okay. Because again, I'm the youngest. So they. They all was waiting for me because all my others coasting already are married. All my other sisters, so they. They were waiting for my wedding. Yeah. So I remember my sister all crying and also mad at him because they're good sisters, of course. Especially, darling, don't die.

18:58 Oh, my God. And I remember this guy. He's a leader in my church. He said, marina, God is in control. And I say, what control? Where is the control in this? You know what? Do not tag me about control. And I know I was wrong, but I was mad at God. I was like, God, I have preserved my life for, like, I worked so hard for my wedding and stuff. Like, how. Yeah, what country you have on this? And I know the Bible. I know everything work for good for the whole of the Lord. But I was mad. And I remember he was like. Because I said, please keep your God advice away from me for a moment. Obviously. Later I asked him, I'm sorry, I was stressed.

19:44 And then I go into my knees and say, God, here I am. Here I am. This so hard for me. I don't know how I'm gonna deal with this. I don't know how. Because the moment when I have to call those people in the state in Jamaica and say, hey, hey, hey, Auntie, the wedding is not precedent. Yeah. People asking like, oh, wow. Oh, what happened? You know, maybe not because they want to be goozy, but they, you know, curious, like, hey, what happened? Because they saw me so, so excited about it, I say, it just. It just don't work out. Yeah. But when I hung the car was. And crying out, like, God, this is so hard for me. But as you. As you mentioned before, like, God. God can take that. Yeah, yeah. God understands our, our feelings.

20:29 He. He create us. He put those feelings in us. So that's, that's important thing, being transparent with God. Yeah. Like, don't, don't pretend being like, okay, hang on, here I am, I bless the Lord. But you have, you know, but you have mad, you are mad in your heart. You have bad feelings against that people that hurt you. You have to be honest and transparent with God and say, you know what, I want to go there and push him over. I know I can't, but I want to. Exactly. But. And God talked to that in the Bible. I think in one of the psalms, David said, you love the truth in the, in the secret.

21:10 Like God love when you are honest with him and say, God, I trust you, but this is so, so hard for me. So just help me. And I remember me the story when Jesus asked one of the people he want to help and that people say, I trust you, but help me help my faith. So God now when you want to trust him, but your faith is not like in the level it used to be because again, we're humans. Yes. And God got that. Yeah. So, yeah, I agree totally. And like you said before too, with your friend, you know, it's not always helpful to just say these things that may be true, like God is in control or God loves you.

21:56 Like, you know that. It's not that that stuff isn't true, but it's not helpful. And it doesn't help anybody heal or feel seen in that moment. Right. Because what people need to hear is like, I'm so sorry. You don't deserve this. This shouldn't have happened. I just be there, like. Yeah, just be there. Just show up. Yeah. That's why I really appreciate my friend Darling. And I have mentioned here about a couple. But I'm so, I'm just so grateful with her because there is time that I. I used to call her, like in the morning, in the night, you say, here I am. And she don't start asking questions. You just stay with me. Yeah, well, and, and I'm going to be interviewing Darling as well. So I'm gonna have both of you, both of you on. And like I said before we started recording, it's. I think I'm looking at two very future high leaders in Panama over here.

22:47 So very, very happy to have you guys on now. You are interviewing the future's president. Yes. Or is she? Or me? But we gotta be one of. One of you. Yeah. Oh, oh, maybe both. Both. One period and then another one. Do it. Yes. Go for it. So you moved back because of your wedding, is that correct? Exactly. You know how many opportunities I got there? People saying to me marina, I remember this district was Dallas district was a good school district. Many times a principal contact me, hey, we wanted to hire you for next semester. I say, no, not me. I'm about to be a wife. Yeah.

23:30 And moving here and I found all of these masks. I was like, why are you gonna stay in this state? God, why you don't talk to me about that this going to happen. So I don't came here and stuff. But again, I know there is something behind it. I have to be honest with you until today, I don't understand why that happened. And I'm not expecting an answer. But there is no way I don't receive something back about God of this I now after the storm, the sun come back. So that's what I'm waiting. Not an answer. But I know something will happen. Yeah. You'll be able to look back and say that's why.

24:14 Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. But it's hard because you know, you. You did have opportunities and you were on a roll over there and achieving your dreams that you worked really, really hard for. Indeed. So what is it like to be back in Panama after living in the States? Look, the States are not perfect. So that is not at all what I'm saying. But you were kind of on a trajectory there. You thought you were coming to a certain place here. And now things are completely different. Pretty. You know what I'm again I'm liking because I know something good is going to happen soon. Yeah. So being with my family has been really helpful because okay, I got the money there. I got like, oh, I'm in the state. You know, Panamanian people, when you say oh, I'm in the state, they. They think you're rich.

25:08 Like, they think like, oh, she's famous. Did you went to New York. And so being back here, people ask a lot of. And I'm like, it's okay. It's a good city. It's big. It's just. But it's fine. You can go there too. Don't think that is impossible. So being here with my family again, I got monetary stuff. But by Christmas time I miss them. You know, I sometimes when I arrive from my job or from college and I open my door and I smell in my mom kitchen flavors like everything. I was like, oh, I need to be with them. Especially because since I was the youngest, I grew up with a lot of attention, with a lot of let Me tell you my biggest secret. It's a really shame, but I will tell you. I used to live with my parents until I got 16 years old. There's no judgment here.

26:06 As I told you when I came before behind cameras, I told you, oh, I just arrived from my dad's house and my dad how yesterday say hey, are you sleeping with us tonight? I'm like dad, like let me know you're listening. He was sleeping with us. I'm like dad, no, I'm not doing it. Yeah. I'm 24 years old. He was asking me that yesterday. I'm like, oh my God. He misses it. When you were a kid, right? Yeah. They still see me like I'm. I don't know, like the lady youngest. That vibe never going to change. No. Also with my sister, sister. She's. They are so like protective and look, look different. You have look around and this and this. I'm like oh my God. And also since I moved to the state and I moved back to Panama they. They are really focused on. I understand that time changes here in Panama. Like security, you know, like, like, like being secure here. Like they told me, hey be careful, don't visit these places because when you was here was a good place or so. So. But now it's, it's really dangerous at this time. So they are really like careful about that. Yeah. So again being with my family have been really good for me enjoying again my mom food.

27:21 Oh Jesus. My mom is from Jamaica so she have like that. So being with them, talking with my sister sometimes. Yeah. I forgot to mention a detail. Since the man who I was going to marry proposed me in my house. When I went through all this process I moved to my, to my grandma house because wake up myself and see in the living room in my mind was like the decoration and stuff for the proposal. So I for a time and after taking therapies I say for now I will move to my grandma house. And my grandma is in the city, not in the west. So that's why. But I visit my parents and they seem like are you okay now to move back? I'm like, give me a couple more months, Daddy, mommy, couple more months. So yeah. And I love living with my grandma because she is old and she's alone. She also lived in the estate many times. She was a resident there. She came like in 2015. I think she spent most of her life in the States. So she. Oh wow. Yeah.

28:25 She is in Panama with her mind in the state. In my grandma house there is a picture of a president of the United States. I'm like, grandma, you are in Panama. Like, come on, you have to slow down. Oh, my God. So, yeah, so living with her also, like, taking care of her. Abuela is grandma in Spanish. So being like, abuela, are you okay? Abuela? There is anything I can assist you with? Yeah, like, that's. That's special time. Yeah. And also my weather. I'm sorry, but my weather is Panamanian. Weather is awesome. I love it. I love it. I love to. I can use these, like, my glasses and stuff. I could use it also in the state, but just in summertime.

29:08 Yeah. And here in Panama, you have more summer than everything. Yes. So I. I'm glad to be back. Even though I went to a hard process and everything is different because, you know, at this time, I was imagine myself living in my. In my own house and stuff. Yeah. But let's see. Let's move on. Yeah. And I could say I'm fine, like, living with my. With my grandma, visiting my parents, talking with my sister, talking to darling. Darling, how I will have something to do. Yeah. For example, for this, she say, I need you Friday at this time. Like, okay, girl, let's go. I'm coming. Yeah. Yeah. So that's good. I love it. So you kind of already spoke to the fact that where you were in the States, you were in Pennsylvania in the mountains.

29:49 Mountains. And so that's a totally different climate than what you have here. So how was that for you adjusting? It was really hard at the beginning. I remember using, like, two clothes, two pair of gloves, like, two coats, like, leggings, and then jeans, and then, like, all of this. But then, like, by the time, you know, you're getting kind of used to it. But the thing I never got using the state of the weather is that in the fall time, the sky turned dark before time. Yes. Oh, my God, that was so tough for me. Like, five o', clock. Talking with my family in the video call, and they like, what time it is there. I'm like, it is five o'. Clock. I know. It's pitch dark.

30:35 Yeah. That's the only thing I never got used to it. Yeah. Other than that. Good. Also the food. Oh, my God. At the beginning, it was like, hamburgers, fries. Because in Panama, fries and hamburger are, like, for a special occasion. Okay. Okay. Normal. Like, typical place in Panama are like, rice with chicken. But, like, you want to, like, celebrate something, you. Oh, let's buy a hamburger. Yeah. So when I arrived, I'm like, hamburger in the college, like, every Day I can eat hamburgers and fry. And they say, yes, it was a pizza station. I'm like, can I have that? So, yes. I'm, like, so excited. Yeah. But that's what. That just lasts me, like, three months after. I was like, oh, yeah, I need my rice back.

31:15 I don't need any more of this. Yeah, that's fair. Now, did you live on campus? I used to live on campus, yes. How was that for you? Was good and tough at the same time. Yeah. Good, because I. I get to. To preach the. The souls there and. And preach about the gospel and say, like, being. Seeing many friends approaching to me, like, I'm. Look, I'm going to this really hard situation right now, or look, I'm going to depression. And being there for them was good, but for the other side was something different because I don't want to judge anybody. But, you know, cultures are different. Okay. So people from other countries, like, smoke marijuana. I'm like, oh, yeah. And being in the elevator and just smoke them, like, oh, yeah. You know, so that's why. But other than that, I could say was a good experience. I met people from Nepali, I mean, for Nepal, from India, and I learned about their culture. This girl from Nepal, her name is Rima, she cook. One day, she invite me, and they eat with the fingers. They don't use spoon. And she said, come. I'm, like, looking for the spoon. She's like, no, no, no, no. I'm like, okay. And I just start eating and stuff. Like, what's so good? And then she. They told.

32:35 They showed me like, a dance and stuff. So was. Was good. Yeah. They also told me how to say good morning in the language. Good morning. And I just still remember it. Good. Good morning in Nepali is honey. Yeah. And if you want to say hello, you say namaste. If you wanna, like, things like that. And rice, you say, oh, that's bad. And. And how do you say chicken Cocora? Like, I still remember those things. So it' you know, I changed culture with them and stuff. Yeah. Great opportunity. Yeah, was really great opportunity. Now, where was your favorite place that you went to while you were in the States? It's called Canobos.

33:22 Yes. Oh, yeah. I don't know. I live in Pennsylvania. Okay. So I don't. So I'm from Pennsylvania, not that area. I live closer to Philadelphia. All right. But I had you been in Canaverals, so. I have. I have not. I know what it is. My brother and his family go every year. Oh, okay. Was. It's really fun. There are a lot of attractions that you could do. There is so many things that you could do there. So that season, the number place in the number one place, I could say the second one not to leave but to visit it. New York. Yeah. Because you could take pictures and have like many pictures in my Instagram. Instagram. My WhatsApp. Like, hey, new York. This city that never sleep. Yeah. So let's find another one. I could say the last one. Maryland.

34:12 I went Maryland. Okay. Because Baltimore or Baltimore. Yeah, I went there and was good. Yeah, I think was good. Yeah, I like Baltimore. Yeah, it's nice. Nice. And I, I love New York. I mean, I don't know New York that well. All right. I go. But I'm, I'm like not that far away. So maybe if people would think I would know it better than I do. I don't. But I like, I love going up there. A friend of mine and I go and see shows up there. So fun. So. So yeah. I mean New York is a special place for sure. It's, it's funny. We were actually up there. We were there last weekend. Oh. And we were sitting in this restaurant and it was very like what you would see on TV if you were, if somebody was in a restaurant in New York. And I was like, this is what everybody around the world thinks. All of New York looks like this restaurant.

35:08 Exactly. And then you're there and you're like, some of it's like that, but some of it's very different. Exactly. That's true. You're right. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's fun. I love that Knoebels is your number one place. I'm gonna have to tell my sister in law that because you have to to go. Yeah. My nieces will love that. They'll be so excited to hear that. That's awesome. So you're back in Panama. I know you're doing incredible things. What do you hope for Panama? Like what change do you want to affect? What do you hope for the country, for the youth, for people? As, as an educator, you know, what do you hope to see Panama doing in the future? Future.

35:49 Especially with education. Panama just invests in the education the 5% of, of the, of what they got. So that's so sad for me because in Latin America we, we are in the lowest places in education. So I, I, I hope that change. I hope educator get better pay here. And that's gonna so ironic. But I hope correction slow a lot of. Because no matter how you, how hard you study here, you could study for five years as I did, or even seven, including your, your master. And sometimes the best, the best job is because you have someone in the, in the politics that can help you to come to that job. You know what I mean? So. So I hope to shame that yeah like you study, you deserve what you got because just you do a sacrifice. So why don't get that. So I hope to see those changes. I hope the next, the next generation of politics understand that all that we do have to be for the people, not for our own goodness. You know what I mean? So yeah, that's what I'm hoping of my country. Don't get me wrong, Panama is doing great as before, like than before. But we could do better. Sure, we could all say that. Absolutely.

37:20 Absolutely. Yeah, we could do a lot better. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I know you have aspirations and dreams and so I figured you would. You would have things you wanted to see change, so. And you're going to be the one to do it. You and darling. You and darling. Yeah, me and darling. I'm going to a couple years from now I'm going to tell people I know them and you want to come back here and you want to interview the president. Yes, Yes I am. Oh my God, I love Panama. Panama is a really place to live. Yeah. We just are going as as many other countries into a corruption, a lot of production that people stole for. From. From the, for the government.

38:05 Yeah. Stuff. It's so hard. It's so hard. Yeah, it is. And it is. It is everywhere. And I don't mean to say that like it. It's okay because it's not. And you know, power is a. Is a tricky thing. And I think especially if, if we believe in God like being able to recognize that the subversion of power is the most important thing to service. Like, you know, just because you're given power doesn't mean you deserve to wield it over people. Yeah, I'm. I completely agree with you. Yeah. So this is my first time in Panama. Okay. I think most people know the Panama Canal. Right. And like that's kind of it. So what would you like for people to know about Panama if they come visit? Oh, that's a really great question. Beside Panama Canal, there is many places that you could visit such as Cascuan Tiwo is here in the city that contain all our history.

39:08 Like the. For the old Panama before is completely different now in the past was just ruins, but now is like a really. It's one of our biggest place to visit. Yeah. So that the Food. I hope you guys go to the Panamanian food. Like, restaurants. Yeah. You know, like. No, just like the fast food. Like McDonald's. No, try Caribbean Panamanian plates. And also our culture, there is, like, a town in Spanish. It's called Mark. I don't know how to say that in English, but they are, like, the original Panamanians. They are, like. Yeah, the indigenous. Yeah, exactly. The indigenous. So you could go there.

39:52 Go. Because they show you, like, the dances and everything, and they put you, like. Like the. Like the typical dress that they use. It is amazing. And. And also they have, like, a really. They had, like, the best beaches to go, and so. Wow. Oh, yeah. The water is so clear. You could see, like, the features there is just amazing. One of the Latin. Of the Latin artists, his name is Faruko. He's. He's so famous in the Latin in. In the Latin world. He. He came Panama and. And he went there and he was so like, oh, look at this. It was. It is amazing. That's awesome. I could say that. And also, peer people are so kind. We kind people. Yeah. Like, if you go, like, to. Especially if you go to rural. Rural areas, because cities are more busy.

40:39 People are, like, coming out for work and school. Yeah. But if you go, like, for rural people and they see you, they're gonna be like, hey. Yeah. Like, they're gonna ask because they're gonna recognize that you are not from here. Yeah. So they can offer you, like, a. Like something to eat maybe. Like. Yeah. I love. I love city and rural. But rural people are, like, more kind. They both kind, but sure. You know what I mean? I know what you mean. Yes, absolutely. Exactly. It's a great hospitality. Yes, it is. I could say that. Casco, Antigua, Cunayala. That is where indigenous are. How far is that from. From Panama City. It could be, like, couples hours.

41:19 Like, say, like, four. Okay. Four or five. And then you have to take a boat to get in the Iceland. Oh, wow. Yeah. And any restaurants that. That we could say fried Panamanian food people. Yeah. Well, Darling is in charge of our itinerary, and I'm pretty sure she has. She will. Things on the docket. I told her, I said, I want as much history and culture stuff as you can give me, so. She will. She's very good at it. Yeah, she's been fantastic. I'm so happy to be here. I'm so excited to experience Panama for, you know, the next week. I'm glad you're gonna enjoy it. I'm. I'm sure I will not because it's. My country is. Because it is what it is. Yeah, it's. It's beautiful. There's so many places that we just overlook because it's not the most popular.

42:06 And truly, I mean, like, I had the opportunity to come and so I came. Right. But it wasn't like I had been planning to come to Panama. So I'm so excited that I. I had the opportunity and. Yeah, I'm really excited. Yeah. Well, I have a question that I ask everybody in each episode, which is through the lens of your experience and what you've lived in your life, what does compassion mean to you? Compassion. Compassion means to me that just break me because. Oh my God. When in my way here. So sorry. Don't apologize. In my way here I was in a homeless like using drugs and the soul is down now. But what was like 3pm and the soul was so bright and he was like, I'm like, oh my God.

42:59 Like he. And next to him was like three more industry like with that. So like that song was really bright. Like you have to be in your house, I don't know, drinking water. So I start crying in the car. And my dad say, how you want to be president? You want to see worse things than this? I'm like, daddy. So compassion means to me putting yourself in the shoes of others. Like compassion and empathy, I think go together. And everything that Jesus do was for compassion. I remember like the story of the fishes and the bread. He did it because he saw all the, like the people in the desert. In the desert. And he told he, he disciple, I have compassion of them. So that's why he do that miracle.

43:46 Yeah. So that's for me, it's compassion putting yourself in the shoes of. Of others. Like, what about if, if, if that homilies was my dad. God protect my dad. But what about if, If I. If, if that homeless. What is. Is my. I don't know, something. Someone you love. Yeah. And not about homilies. Also about people who don't have what you have. People who don't. Each three days we got lunch, breakfast and a snack and dinner. Yeah. And sometimes a dessert too. So having that compassion, always do nothing yourself first. Like, sometimes it's good to forget a little bit about yourself and what you want to do and what you want to get. People, people in this time are so focused on, oh, I want to be happy. I want to experience the full happiness. You could be happy today. You could be happy washing dishes.

44:42 You could be happy going out buying groceries. You could be happy now, because people tend to say, I will be happy when I got my house. I will be happy when I got the Lamborghini. I will be happy when I go Disney or when I go Paris or when I go Eiffel Tower. You could be happy now. Yeah. It is, it is a fact that the 70% of the times you want to be doing, like, daily things. Yeah. Going work, taking a bath, like take your children to school. And just like a 30% or even I could say a 20%. That is that you got like, excited moments, such as going a wedding and going out for a big vacation. That's not happening often. Offense.

45:27 Yeah. So you decide your decision. You want to be happy the 70 or the audio or the 100 of the time, like enjoying your. Your happy moments, your birthdays or. Or a wedding invitation. But you could also enjoy the 70% of going into your work in the way, like admiring the. I don't know, like the, the heaven, the sky. Oh, how beautiful the sky is today. In. In the way of your, of your job or enjoying taking your children to school instead of go, you're late. Like, you could be happy. Yeah. Now that's my message. You could be happy now in the simple things and always things. Put yourself in others. Do not put your opinion like, or, you know, judgment. Exactly. Always think about other perspective, accept others. And, And I think that's why we. I think my mission, my personal mission in life.

46:22 And I'm sorry, I know I'm talking too much, but my personal mission in my life is serve others. God said, Jesus said to his disciples, the big one in the kingdom is the one who serves. So. And even Jesus came. He said, I came to serve, not to be served. So I want to follow my Lord example. I love that. Well, I. I know that there are big things ahead for you. I'm so excited for you to. To see what's next to come back and interview when you, you and you're the president. Yeah. It's wonderful. Thank you so much for making the time for me to do this. Yeah. It was a pleasure to meet you. What? My pleasure. My first time doing an English podcast. Oh, my God, you did so good.

47:09 Thank you so much for everything. Thank you for listening to the human experience. Everyone has a story and I'd love to hear yours. So be sure to check out the show notes for more information about how to stay in touch, do good, and love well.