Episode 100: The Tables Turn - Jennifer Peterkin on Dreams, Travel, and the Power of Legacy

1
00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:04,160
Welcome to the Human Experience, a podcast about the stories we

2
00:00:04,660 --> 00:00:08,360
live out every day and the importance of championing the vulnerability and

3
00:00:08,860 --> 00:00:12,280
courage of the storyteller. I'm your host, Jennifer Peterkin,

4
00:00:12,780 --> 00:00:16,079
and it was through my own lived story of experiencing domestic violence

5
00:00:16,579 --> 00:00:20,520
that this podcast was created. By traveling the globe and interviewing

6
00:00:21,020 --> 00:00:24,920
each guest in person, I am convinced now more than ever, that stories

7
00:00:25,420 --> 00:00:28,880
have the power to change the world. Thank you for being here.

8
00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:32,340
In a world full of noise, to listen with intention is

9
00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:36,300
an act of resistance for everyone.

10
00:00:36,620 --> 00:00:39,820
That. Yes, in addition to telling my story,

11
00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:43,340
I'm definitely gonna sing for everyone. No, that would be.

12
00:00:44,540 --> 00:00:47,380
This would need to be more than coffee for that time. I don't know.

13
00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:50,180
You just throw a splash of bourbon in there. I know I do have some

14
00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:53,740
options. Got my mezcal. Yes,

15
00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:57,700
you do. I don't drink enough to actually have this

16
00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:01,580
entire bar. You know, it's not that you don't drink

17
00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:05,590
enough. It's that you probably just need to entertain more. Oh, no.

18
00:01:06,090 --> 00:01:09,270
Now we're gonna need a spit guard. I do, actually, and I love to entertain,

19
00:01:09,770 --> 00:01:12,790
but my. Not usually in your apartment. We're in my apartment,

20
00:01:12,950 --> 00:01:16,790
and it is. It's tiny.

21
00:01:17,590 --> 00:01:21,510
When I lived in my house, I loved to entertain. Yeah, I believe

22
00:01:22,010 --> 00:01:27,470
that. Yeah. And actually, a friend and I were talking about this recently because I

23
00:01:27,970 --> 00:01:31,830
don't have, like. I have a lot of different friends in different groups.

24
00:01:32,330 --> 00:01:36,020
I don't have a, like, cohesive friend. Group. Group. Yeah. And so it's hard

25
00:01:36,340 --> 00:01:40,180
because I love to throw parties. I even did it in

26
00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:43,860
a former life. Yes. But I feel it

27
00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:48,340
never, like, really comes together because it's all of these different people that really don't

28
00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:52,380
know each other. And so there's not a whole lot of incentive

29
00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:56,340
to, like, keep getting together. I mean, I. We've met

30
00:01:56,840 --> 00:01:59,860
Jen now you have met Jen. You. Do you need to meet Joy.

31
00:02:00,260 --> 00:02:03,620
Yep. I'm. So you got a

32
00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:07,180
host of friends giving so that. Okay. Like, you're, like, afraid of, like, merging all

33
00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:09,940
these groups because we don't know each other, but, like, we know of each other.

34
00:02:10,020 --> 00:02:13,860
I'm not afraid of doing it. I am just, like, it's so much

35
00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:17,420
work. Yeah. And when people. It's hard. There's, like,

36
00:02:17,920 --> 00:02:21,380
this meme that I love that's like, the real miracle of Jesus

37
00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:25,220
was him having 12 friends in his 30s. It just feels so

38
00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:29,130
real. It's true. It's true. Because I'm like.

39
00:02:29,450 --> 00:02:32,810
I just feel like, who would. I. Like, who would come

40
00:02:32,890 --> 00:02:36,450
at that point? You know, you're a Part you're the social butterfly,

41
00:02:36,950 --> 00:02:39,570
though, so I feel like this is, this is not for you. I know you

42
00:02:40,070 --> 00:02:43,290
would come. It's not for me. I, I,

43
00:02:44,250 --> 00:02:48,330
I'm an extrovert. So I recharge around all

44
00:02:48,830 --> 00:02:52,250
the people. Yes. Strangers bring them on. Which I appreciate.

45
00:02:52,330 --> 00:02:55,690
Cuz I guess I don't actually know that many

46
00:02:56,190 --> 00:03:00,010
people because it's become increasingly clear when

47
00:03:00,510 --> 00:03:03,730
my friends are all like. No, I'm gonna stay home. It's very tempting to stay

48
00:03:04,230 --> 00:03:07,330
home this time of year, so. Well, yeah, I mean, I think I like texted

49
00:03:07,830 --> 00:03:10,810
you that I'm not leaving my house this weekend and I'm very excited about it,

50
00:03:11,310 --> 00:03:14,530
so. Yeah. Yeah. But we are supposed to have the storm of

51
00:03:15,030 --> 00:03:18,730
the century, so. Well, at least of this year, by. The time

52
00:03:18,970 --> 00:03:22,850
this episode airs in a couple of days, we'll know whether or not

53
00:03:23,350 --> 00:03:26,790
it was. It happened. That's your. Yep. All right.

54
00:03:26,870 --> 00:03:30,310
So this is episode 100 of

55
00:03:30,790 --> 00:03:34,590
the Human experience. It is. And that's

56
00:03:35,090 --> 00:03:39,030
wild. Yep. So I'm actually not gonna lead this episode.

57
00:03:39,350 --> 00:03:42,710
My friend Kesh has

58
00:03:43,110 --> 00:03:46,390
offered. Well, accepted. She didn't offer. I didn't offer.

59
00:03:46,550 --> 00:03:49,990
She accepted when I asked if she would interview me.

60
00:03:50,070 --> 00:03:53,980
So I don't know why I'm nervous because I

61
00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:57,860
talk about stuff all of the time, but it just feels very. I'm in the

62
00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:01,020
other seat now, so. You are, you're on the opposite side. Yeah,

63
00:04:01,660 --> 00:04:04,980
I don't know. So I guess you have

64
00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:08,140
to take it away. I have to take it away. You know what? We're going

65
00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:12,420
to give the people what they want. They've been listening to your voice for 99

66
00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:16,140
episodes and now we get to know a little bit more about

67
00:04:16,220 --> 00:04:19,719
Jennifer Peterkin and what brought

68
00:04:20,219 --> 00:04:23,519
you to this point where we're at now. Three years in episode

69
00:04:24,019 --> 00:04:27,999
100. So let's talk about the last three years. Like, what has this journey been

70
00:04:28,499 --> 00:04:31,919
like for you? What have you learned? What did you expect? What were

71
00:04:32,419 --> 00:04:35,999
you surprised by? Oh my gosh. It's been wild. So three years ago

72
00:04:36,159 --> 00:04:40,239
in on January 31st, right. There's 31

73
00:04:40,739 --> 00:04:44,239
days. Yeah, I think I said it would be 11pm or midnight or whatever.

74
00:04:44,399 --> 00:04:48,679
January 31st. I actually told Kesh I

75
00:04:49,179 --> 00:04:53,100
have to like, I have to make myself or give myself a deadline.

76
00:04:53,420 --> 00:04:56,940
So I put it out there because this podcast has

77
00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:01,420
been some iteration of it has been in the works since 2020 and

78
00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:04,780
it didn't fully get actually get published until 2023.

79
00:05:05,660 --> 00:05:09,740
So clearly I needed a push. So I actually

80
00:05:09,900 --> 00:05:13,980
just, you know, gave myself that deadline finally and

81
00:05:14,140 --> 00:05:17,260
it was like 11:50 something

82
00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:20,980
PM on January 31st. And I had

83
00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:24,910
told people that it was the. The launch would be in January

84
00:05:25,390 --> 00:05:29,150
at some point. So technically I made my debut

85
00:05:29,710 --> 00:05:32,350
on time, but it was cutting it close.

86
00:05:32,750 --> 00:05:37,270
So I think that I

87
00:05:37,770 --> 00:05:41,630
look back at that, and even three years later,

88
00:05:41,710 --> 00:05:45,350
I don't think I would have been able to do it any differently in

89
00:05:45,850 --> 00:05:49,220
terms of knowing now what I

90
00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:53,260
know about podcasting and knowing that I can

91
00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:57,180
do it. And it's not, like, as scary as I thought necessarily.

92
00:05:58,220 --> 00:06:01,620
It's still putting yourself out there. It's still putting a piece of

93
00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:04,779
yourself out there and a piece of your art out there, and that never feels

94
00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:08,860
like it's ready to release. Right. And so even though

95
00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:12,940
it felt ridiculous at the time, and it kind of still does, and I look

96
00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:17,180
back and I laugh at it, if I were meeting another deadline,

97
00:06:18,260 --> 00:06:22,020
which I actually kind of am right now, I am still having to

98
00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:25,820
push myself to actually put it out there and let go of

99
00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:30,300
it enough to put it in the hands of somebody else. So it's

100
00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:34,820
weird, but I think it just speaks to

101
00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:38,580
how personal any project like this is for

102
00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:42,700
somebody. You know, so many people have these

103
00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:47,060
passions and they do these podcasts and they work super hard. I've met so

104
00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:51,040
many people over the past three years who are just pouring everything

105
00:06:51,540 --> 00:06:55,600
that they have into their shows, and no one is doing it as their job.

106
00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:59,000
No one is making money off of this. You know, if you're not Joe

107
00:06:59,500 --> 00:07:03,120
Rogan or Alex Cooper, like, you're not making money

108
00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:06,600
off of your podcast. So it has to be something that

109
00:07:07,100 --> 00:07:10,960
you care about deeply. And I've been so encouraged

110
00:07:11,460 --> 00:07:15,120
by the people that I've met over the past three years who

111
00:07:15,620 --> 00:07:19,440
have just inspired me to keep pouring

112
00:07:19,940 --> 00:07:23,600
into it and to keep going. People that are way further along

113
00:07:24,100 --> 00:07:27,920
than I am, hundreds of episodes into what they're doing, and they're still

114
00:07:28,420 --> 00:07:31,160
just, like, showing up week after week. It's incredible.

115
00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:35,079
So, yeah, I mean, on one hand it feels

116
00:07:35,579 --> 00:07:39,240
like I'm so. I feel so accomplished.

117
00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:43,440
And on the other hand, and I don't mean this

118
00:07:43,940 --> 00:07:46,680
in a bad or negative way towards myself, but it's just.

119
00:07:48,530 --> 00:07:52,210
It's not this huge, special thing.

120
00:07:52,370 --> 00:07:59,090
Like there are so many people trying to have

121
00:07:59,590 --> 00:08:03,050
these conversations, trying to make these connections, and so it

122
00:08:03,550 --> 00:08:07,170
gives me hope for what people want out of life and humanity,

123
00:08:07,330 --> 00:08:10,890
that there are people working in their free

124
00:08:11,390 --> 00:08:14,210
time, not for money, but just because they care about it,

125
00:08:14,620 --> 00:08:18,780
to bring people together. Yeah. And you do your podcast

126
00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:22,660
in somewhat of a unique way. If people

127
00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:27,340
have been paying Attention, you often say where the episodes recorded because you only do

128
00:08:27,820 --> 00:08:31,700
your. Your interviews in person. Yeah. And so that's taken

129
00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:35,260
you all over the world. Talk about that a little bit. Oh, my gosh.

130
00:08:35,340 --> 00:08:38,780
That has been genuinely the absolute pleasure of my life.

131
00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:42,790
I. I can't overstate how

132
00:08:43,270 --> 00:08:46,630
much I love that I made that decision from the very

133
00:08:47,130 --> 00:08:49,990
beginning, even though it has made things really stressful sometimes.

134
00:08:53,270 --> 00:08:57,870
So it was a very intentional decision because I

135
00:08:58,370 --> 00:09:01,830
felt like what I was asking people for

136
00:09:02,330 --> 00:09:07,030
was the most vulnerable parts of themselves to actually sit down and open

137
00:09:07,790 --> 00:09:11,270
up their hearts and minds and really just get to

138
00:09:11,770 --> 00:09:16,270
the nitty gritty of things. And not to shock

139
00:09:16,350 --> 00:09:20,590
people or not to make things salacious or more listenable,

140
00:09:20,830 --> 00:09:25,670
but just because I think that there is a huge value in humanity

141
00:09:26,170 --> 00:09:28,750
and storytelling and there's a intrinsic connection there.

142
00:09:30,270 --> 00:09:33,720
And so I couldn't pay people to be

143
00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:37,720
on the show, and I didn't even know how I would put a value

144
00:09:38,220 --> 00:09:41,800
on that. And so my decision was, well, I'm going to meet

145
00:09:42,300 --> 00:09:45,880
them in person and sit down with them in person and physically bear witness to

146
00:09:46,380 --> 00:09:50,000
their story. And it has made such

147
00:09:50,500 --> 00:09:54,280
a difference for me personally. I've gotten a lot of feedback that it's

148
00:09:54,780 --> 00:09:57,760
made a difference for the guests as well. But for me personally,

149
00:09:58,260 --> 00:10:02,430
which I can actually speak to, it has just been such a joy and

150
00:10:02,930 --> 00:10:06,270
so humbling to interact with people

151
00:10:07,070 --> 00:10:10,510
in a way that leaves a more permanent mark.

152
00:10:12,030 --> 00:10:15,390
You know, I send Christmas cards to all of my

153
00:10:15,550 --> 00:10:19,030
previous guests and I get some back. And it's

154
00:10:19,530 --> 00:10:22,950
really sweet just to know that these people remember you and they remember

155
00:10:23,450 --> 00:10:26,190
that the time that you shared and that, again,

156
00:10:26,270 --> 00:10:29,190
connection means something. Yeah.

157
00:10:29,350 --> 00:10:32,990
Let's talk about some of your travel, because even before you were traveling to

158
00:10:33,490 --> 00:10:36,790
do interviews for the podcast, you were a big fan of travel. Yeah.

159
00:10:36,950 --> 00:10:40,670
And so what has travel looked like for you? How has it changed

160
00:10:41,170 --> 00:10:45,030
over the years? And what do you feel like is so special about being able

161
00:10:45,530 --> 00:10:48,870
to see a new place? Yeah, I mean,

162
00:10:49,370 --> 00:10:52,750
I do have to say, like, part of the interviewing people in person

163
00:10:53,250 --> 00:10:56,830
was a selfish choice. It was an excuse to get on the

164
00:10:57,330 --> 00:11:00,300
road and travel. And I'm very fortunate that my job allows me to do.

165
00:11:00,450 --> 00:11:03,730
Do that. I. I did my first solo travel in my 20s,

166
00:11:04,230 --> 00:11:08,210
but then I got married and then I got divorced and

167
00:11:09,250 --> 00:11:13,050
became a domestic violence advocate. And, you know, all of these things.

168
00:11:13,550 --> 00:11:16,730
And I. I was reestablishing my life, you know,

169
00:11:17,230 --> 00:11:20,490
who figuring out who I was post divorce. I'm still in my 20s at

170
00:11:20,990 --> 00:11:24,650
that point, and I just felt like, you Know, it was kind

171
00:11:25,150 --> 00:11:28,450
of a, A perfect storm in that your

172
00:11:28,950 --> 00:11:32,510
20s are already a time when you're trying to figure hell

173
00:11:33,010 --> 00:11:36,670
you are, right? And then I'm in this place where I

174
00:11:36,990 --> 00:11:40,750
never thought I'd be, which was divorced and

175
00:11:41,870 --> 00:11:45,230
growing up in a community where divorce was never really

176
00:11:45,550 --> 00:11:49,230
accepted, and trying to figure out what that

177
00:11:49,730 --> 00:11:52,750
meant for me and what that meant for who I was in the world and

178
00:11:53,250 --> 00:11:56,910
in my faith and in my family and my community. And so

179
00:11:57,410 --> 00:12:00,860
I started kind of rebuilding things in the way

180
00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:04,820
that I thought I was supposed to. So, you know, I got

181
00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:09,060
my 9 to 5 job settled and I, I bought a house and

182
00:12:09,560 --> 00:12:13,060
I got really involved in a church and established community

183
00:12:13,300 --> 00:12:16,780
and I was busy. I mean, like, I didn't have a whole

184
00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:20,580
lot of time at home twiddling my thumbs, thinking about what am I going to

185
00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:24,980
do next. Right? But I was not happy or

186
00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:28,960
fulfilled. I mean, I wasn't unhappy, but I wasn't happy. Something was

187
00:12:29,460 --> 00:12:33,320
missing. Yeah, something's missing. And, you know, I would

188
00:12:33,820 --> 00:12:37,720
talk about travel as this thing that would happen in the future or like when

189
00:12:38,220 --> 00:12:42,560
I met somebody, you know, I would trap, we would travel together or when

190
00:12:43,060 --> 00:12:46,320
my life reached this point, then I would be able

191
00:12:46,820 --> 00:12:50,760
to do these things. And I realized that that was

192
00:12:51,260 --> 00:12:54,640
never going to happen. Because even if, you know,

193
00:12:55,140 --> 00:12:57,440
even if I did meet somebody or even if the things that I thought I

194
00:12:57,940 --> 00:13:01,720
was supposed to do did happen, there was no guarantee

195
00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:07,240
that it would play out the way that I thought it would, right? So I

196
00:13:08,680 --> 00:13:12,400
put my house up for rent. I started renting it out so I could get

197
00:13:12,900 --> 00:13:16,440
a bit of an extra income, moved into an apartment that was a lot

198
00:13:16,940 --> 00:13:20,440
smaller and started traveling.

199
00:13:21,090 --> 00:13:25,170
And well, I did, I did this at the end of 2020.

200
00:13:25,250 --> 00:13:28,130
So traveling wasn't, wasn't like super.

201
00:13:29,090 --> 00:13:32,690
It didn't get, didn't get going right away, but that was the

202
00:13:33,190 --> 00:13:36,290
idea, right? You know, I have to decide who I'm

203
00:13:36,790 --> 00:13:41,170
going to be right now. And that doesn't change when

204
00:13:41,650 --> 00:13:44,450
something or someone enters or exits my life.

205
00:13:44,610 --> 00:13:48,690
I have to be able to do it now, right? And it was really terrifying,

206
00:13:48,770 --> 00:13:52,420
right? I mean, all of the people around me were either

207
00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:56,340
getting married or already married, already had kids or having kids,

208
00:13:57,460 --> 00:14:01,020
getting promotions at their job, whatever, like doing all of the things

209
00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:04,460
that, you know, you think of the board game of life that like, gets you

210
00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:07,860
to the end. And, you know, you win the game, you win,

211
00:14:08,100 --> 00:14:11,660
you win. If you do all the right things, right? There is no option to

212
00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:15,660
be like solo travel. And then, you know, you end up

213
00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:17,700
at the end of the game with no money left. So.

214
00:14:19,620 --> 00:14:23,400
So I was like, I need to. I. To figure out how I

215
00:14:23,900 --> 00:14:27,880
can do what I want to do right now, because if I keep waiting

216
00:14:28,380 --> 00:14:31,440
for a day, that day is never going to come. And so

217
00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:35,600
I. My first big trip by myself

218
00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:39,920
after this, you know, epiphany of mine was actually

219
00:14:40,420 --> 00:14:42,640
in the beginning of 2022, I went to Egypt by myself.

220
00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:46,560
And this was a trip that I had actually planned twice before

221
00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:51,100
with other people, and it fell through. And my

222
00:14:51,340 --> 00:14:55,060
mom specifically asked me not to go to Egypt by

223
00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:58,620
myself. And then, you know,

224
00:14:58,780 --> 00:15:02,580
it was the end of 2021, and I

225
00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:07,020
have a friend, actually, that lives in Egypt. He's from Egypt, and he

226
00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:10,580
and his family live there. And he has been. He had been asking me to

227
00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:13,260
come visit. And,

228
00:15:14,380 --> 00:15:18,280
you know, it was the end of 2021, and I told my mom,

229
00:15:18,780 --> 00:15:22,160
I said, look, I think I'm going to Egypt alone.

230
00:15:22,660 --> 00:15:26,120
And she went. I know. Moms always know.

231
00:15:26,620 --> 00:15:30,640
Exactly. Okay, she gets it. So I did

232
00:15:31,140 --> 00:15:35,200
this trip to Egypt solo. I had my friend

233
00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:40,800
give me an itinerary. He. He made sure the whole thing

234
00:15:41,300 --> 00:15:43,690
was planned out for me. It was an amazing trip,

235
00:15:45,290 --> 00:15:49,130
and I never felt

236
00:15:49,630 --> 00:15:53,210
more alive than in those moments. I felt

237
00:15:53,710 --> 00:15:56,970
so accomplished and

238
00:15:57,470 --> 00:16:00,770
like I had really done something worthwhile

239
00:16:01,270 --> 00:16:04,850
for myself. And it wasn't just the travel. The travel itself was

240
00:16:05,350 --> 00:16:09,160
wonderful, right. But the ability to go to

241
00:16:09,660 --> 00:16:13,080
this place by myself, get myself

242
00:16:13,580 --> 00:16:18,040
around, figure, figure things out for myself, it just gave

243
00:16:18,540 --> 00:16:21,720
me more confidence than anything else has in my life.

244
00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:25,960
And so that's when things really kicked into high gear,

245
00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:30,080
and I started just going as

246
00:16:30,580 --> 00:16:34,000
far as I could, as often as I could. I started spending

247
00:16:34,500 --> 00:16:36,630
more time away from home, you know,

248
00:16:37,830 --> 00:16:41,390
chunks of time. And so being gone for a couple

249
00:16:41,890 --> 00:16:44,470
months at a time, I think the longest I've been away is for four months

250
00:16:44,970 --> 00:16:49,030
at a time, which my dog does not like. Fitz is not

251
00:16:49,530 --> 00:16:50,470
a fan. Fitz is not a fan.

252
00:16:52,550 --> 00:16:56,070
But it has been the single

253
00:16:56,230 --> 00:17:00,630
best thing that I have ever done for myself. And even

254
00:17:01,130 --> 00:17:04,310
though it's not always been easy and at times has been

255
00:17:05,030 --> 00:17:05,670
stressful,

256
00:17:07,830 --> 00:17:11,750
I think I have never

257
00:17:11,990 --> 00:17:15,510
been able to learn more about the world and myself

258
00:17:16,070 --> 00:17:19,950
and people than when I'm traveling. And my worldview

259
00:17:20,450 --> 00:17:23,830
has changed so drastically because of it, but in a way that

260
00:17:24,330 --> 00:17:28,670
I'm really proud of, because the

261
00:17:29,170 --> 00:17:33,180
exposure to other cultures and other people and

262
00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:37,700
the way that other. That other people live around the world is

263
00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:38,580
such a gift.

264
00:17:41,780 --> 00:17:45,460
I just think that for multiple reasons,

265
00:17:45,940 --> 00:17:49,140
if you have the opportunity to travel and if you are

266
00:17:51,700 --> 00:17:55,380
Willing to do it. It's the best thing that you can ever give yourself.

267
00:17:55,620 --> 00:17:58,980
The best education internally and externally.

268
00:17:59,620 --> 00:18:03,220
Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about that education? Like,

269
00:18:03,940 --> 00:18:07,540
are there specific things that you've learned about

270
00:18:07,940 --> 00:18:12,460
yourself and about the world and other cultures as

271
00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:15,940
a result of traveling and being immersed in those places?

272
00:18:16,100 --> 00:18:19,300
Yeah. The biggest thing I've learned about myself is that I can

273
00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:23,340
do it. Like, if I want to do it, I can do it. And I

274
00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:26,500
meet so many people who are like, I could never do what you do,

275
00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:30,700
or you're so brave or, you know, and I

276
00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:35,060
understand the sentiment and I thank them. I'm grateful because

277
00:18:35,860 --> 00:18:39,100
I am in a unique position where I'm able to do all of

278
00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:44,100
these things and there is a lot of privilege in that. But I

279
00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:47,980
also want to tell people, if this is something you want, you can do it

280
00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:51,940
too. And you don't have to start by

281
00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:56,100
going to Egypt by yourself. You could, you can,

282
00:18:56,500 --> 00:19:00,340
it is an option. But you don't have to go that far to be doing

283
00:19:00,660 --> 00:19:01,840
good for yourself. Yourself.

284
00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:05,680
I have gained so much.

285
00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:11,480
Confidence isn't a big enough word. Confidence is true,

286
00:19:11,980 --> 00:19:15,360
but also like the self sufficiency. You're driving,

287
00:19:15,860 --> 00:19:19,360
you're taking trains, you're taking planes, you're having to figure out rent in another

288
00:19:19,860 --> 00:19:23,320
country, you're trying to figure out how to map out a

289
00:19:23,820 --> 00:19:27,320
road trip across multiple states over the course of a

290
00:19:27,820 --> 00:19:31,850
month. There's different things that you learn

291
00:19:32,350 --> 00:19:35,810
based on the experiences that you have. But I think internally the

292
00:19:36,310 --> 00:19:39,930
best thing is that you realize that you are so capable of whatever

293
00:19:40,430 --> 00:19:44,370
you want to do. You don't need anybody else holding your hand to do then

294
00:19:44,870 --> 00:19:48,370
makes it much more enjoyable

295
00:19:48,610 --> 00:19:51,810
when somebody else that you like to travel with is with you.

296
00:19:52,530 --> 00:19:56,450
That's an important caveat. Not all friends travel well

297
00:19:56,950 --> 00:20:00,360
together. Just. Just putting that out there. That's true. Not all friends are travel friends.

298
00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:05,520
But knowing that you don't need anybody

299
00:20:06,020 --> 00:20:09,240
to do it with you makes it so that the entire world is then open.

300
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,720
Right. Like you don't. Nothing is holding you back except

301
00:20:13,220 --> 00:20:16,720
yourself. So coming to that realization and coming to

302
00:20:17,220 --> 00:20:20,760
the realization that you have everything you need to make

303
00:20:21,260 --> 00:20:24,930
something happen within you, that's amazing. I think

304
00:20:25,890 --> 00:20:29,330
as far as worldview and perspective shifts, there is

305
00:20:29,410 --> 00:20:32,810
nothing like it. When you leave your

306
00:20:33,310 --> 00:20:36,730
bubble to figure out what somebody else's life

307
00:20:37,230 --> 00:20:40,650
looks like. And I'm not talking about poverty porn

308
00:20:41,150 --> 00:20:44,250
because that is not something I'm necessarily. That I

309
00:20:44,750 --> 00:20:48,130
necessarily love. That happens. We shouldn't be

310
00:20:48,950 --> 00:20:52,110
coming in as a tourist to a major city and like riding through the

311
00:20:52,610 --> 00:20:56,430
slums just to look at the poor people. But when

312
00:20:56,930 --> 00:21:01,350
you are in a country in general and you're just interacting

313
00:21:01,510 --> 00:21:04,949
with a different group of people, when you're in a

314
00:21:05,449 --> 00:21:08,910
different state, when you're in a different environment than you're used to

315
00:21:09,410 --> 00:21:13,190
being in, like, it doesn't have to be this cross cultural

316
00:21:13,430 --> 00:21:17,520
experience necessarily to realize that people

317
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:21,160
are people all over the world and that there

318
00:21:21,660 --> 00:21:25,000
are things that make us similar, that are really beautiful, and there

319
00:21:25,500 --> 00:21:29,560
are always points of connection, but there are also differences that

320
00:21:30,060 --> 00:21:33,400
make it so that we can take a step back and say,

321
00:21:33,900 --> 00:21:38,000
hey, maybe my life experience isn't the only one that matters.

322
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,600
And maybe things aren't as black and white as I think they are.

323
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:46,240
Yeah. And like you were saying, when you are

324
00:21:47,910 --> 00:21:50,870
meeting new people and you're up close and personal with them,

325
00:21:51,370 --> 00:21:54,550
you have an opportunity to hear their story, which is

326
00:21:55,050 --> 00:21:58,110
what this podcast is all about, is giving a platform for

327
00:21:58,610 --> 00:22:02,230
people to share their personal stories, because it's something that no one can argue with,

328
00:22:02,629 --> 00:22:06,270
is our own personal experience. So talk a little bit

329
00:22:06,770 --> 00:22:09,670
about the power of storytelling. Oh, yeah,

330
00:22:10,630 --> 00:22:13,990
I will never shut up about the power of storytelling. That's fine. It's your podcast.

331
00:22:14,490 --> 00:22:18,070
You can go as long as you want. No, I think that

332
00:22:20,770 --> 00:22:24,410
stories have been around for all of time. Right. Like, you know,

333
00:22:24,910 --> 00:22:28,930
we talk about cave drawings and the oral tradition

334
00:22:29,330 --> 00:22:33,010
and things being passed down from generation to generation.

335
00:22:33,510 --> 00:22:37,410
Legends and myths and fairy tales, like, they have survived

336
00:22:38,290 --> 00:22:41,450
so many thousands of years because of

337
00:22:41,950 --> 00:22:45,380
how powerful they are. And I think there's

338
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,020
something innate in us that connects with story.

339
00:22:49,820 --> 00:22:53,260
I think stories are human in such a way that

340
00:22:53,740 --> 00:22:57,260
they are able to stand the test of time in a way that few

341
00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:01,180
other things can. And so we are constantly looking for

342
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:05,020
stories, whether we realize it or not. Right. Everything around us,

343
00:23:05,500 --> 00:23:08,620
whether it be, you know,

344
00:23:08,700 --> 00:23:11,940
film and movies and books and all of the things we usually

345
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:16,970
think of, but like even gossip magazines and social media influencers,

346
00:23:17,210 --> 00:23:20,730
you know, what we connect with are people telling stories.

347
00:23:20,970 --> 00:23:23,850
Whether or not that's what they say, that's what they're doing.

348
00:23:23,930 --> 00:23:27,610
Yeah. And so I think that in

349
00:23:28,110 --> 00:23:31,730
a world where there's so much noise coming at us all of

350
00:23:32,230 --> 00:23:35,450
the time, I mean, even marketing is storytelling,

351
00:23:35,530 --> 00:23:38,890
of course. Right. And so I think subconsciously,

352
00:23:39,270 --> 00:23:42,790
there's parts of us that have become suspicious of

353
00:23:43,190 --> 00:23:46,950
certain medias and ways of storytelling

354
00:23:47,350 --> 00:23:50,990
because it can also be used to manipulate

355
00:23:51,490 --> 00:23:55,670
us. Yeah. And so I think it's really important to be intentional

356
00:23:56,150 --> 00:23:59,870
about seeking out stories. And you're never

357
00:24:00,370 --> 00:24:03,630
going to go wrong when

358
00:24:04,130 --> 00:24:07,670
you are seeking out humans, storytelling, and people's real

359
00:24:08,170 --> 00:24:12,390
life lived experiences. I think that our

360
00:24:12,630 --> 00:24:16,110
experiences are the one thing that we

361
00:24:16,610 --> 00:24:19,990
are complete experts in. Right. We are

362
00:24:20,490 --> 00:24:23,910
the only people to live our exact sequence of

363
00:24:24,410 --> 00:24:27,590
experiences in this space of time. Yeah.

364
00:24:27,750 --> 00:24:31,270
And so while we may have similarities

365
00:24:31,770 --> 00:24:34,950
and things that we have seen and experienced,

366
00:24:35,110 --> 00:24:38,450
nobody has lived through exactly what we have lived through.

367
00:24:38,770 --> 00:24:42,610
And so I think, again, because there are similarities,

368
00:24:43,110 --> 00:24:47,170
there, there's points of connection, but there's enough differences that

369
00:24:47,730 --> 00:24:51,210
it's worth us all telling our stories. There's something

370
00:24:51,710 --> 00:24:55,930
that everybody can learn from you telling your story. The biggest

371
00:24:56,430 --> 00:24:58,210
thing I hear from people is that they don't have a story.

372
00:24:59,250 --> 00:25:02,650
And that is something that I disagree

373
00:25:03,150 --> 00:25:04,850
with on every fundamental level,

374
00:25:07,150 --> 00:25:09,630
because you're alive, so you're alive. You have a story.

375
00:25:10,430 --> 00:25:13,310
The problem is that we, again, are.

376
00:25:13,550 --> 00:25:17,390
Our attention is so sought

377
00:25:17,890 --> 00:25:21,590
after that we feel like things have

378
00:25:22,090 --> 00:25:26,350
to be so dramatic or unfortunately traumatic

379
00:25:27,070 --> 00:25:30,870
for them to be worth telling. And so you

380
00:25:31,370 --> 00:25:33,630
have people that are like, well, I wasn't.

381
00:25:35,150 --> 00:25:37,860
I was gonna go to a really dark place, but maybe I may,

382
00:25:38,090 --> 00:25:41,690
I won't, I wasn't, you know, I didn't marry a prince and,

383
00:25:42,190 --> 00:25:45,330
you know, live in a castle and have

384
00:25:45,830 --> 00:25:48,890
this, like, really fantastical life. And, you know, I didn't.

385
00:25:50,250 --> 00:25:53,969
I'm not Martin Luther King Jr. I didn't make the I have a dream speech.

386
00:25:54,469 --> 00:25:57,690
I didn't go to jail for my beliefs. And those are great stories,

387
00:25:58,330 --> 00:26:01,690
and those stories should be told, but not

388
00:26:01,770 --> 00:26:04,970
everybody's story looks like that. And in fact,

389
00:26:05,130 --> 00:26:08,340
most of ours, or at least we don't see them like that. We don't see

390
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,060
them like that. Yeah. The thing is though, that,

391
00:26:12,020 --> 00:26:15,860
and I can say this after six years of experience

392
00:26:16,100 --> 00:26:19,460
with intentionally seeking out

393
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:23,540
these stories, is that people

394
00:26:23,620 --> 00:26:27,540
don't realize how interesting they are. And people don't

395
00:26:28,740 --> 00:26:32,180
think of the things that they've walked through as

396
00:26:32,500 --> 00:26:35,900
extraordinary because we all have to cope

397
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:40,740
with our own lives. Right. And so unless you are somebody

398
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,780
that you know, I've interviewed somebody on the podcast that had an episode of

399
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:49,140
48 Hours, right. Like, her story was ridiculous and traumatic.

400
00:26:50,020 --> 00:26:52,980
And she's amazing, and her. Her story is amazing.

401
00:26:53,460 --> 00:26:57,220
She's a survivor, and that's awesome. But I have

402
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:01,460
also interviewed people on here that have never told their story

403
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,950
before because I. I had to ask them, would you talk about this

404
00:27:06,030 --> 00:27:09,230
on a podcast? And they're kind of like,

405
00:27:09,390 --> 00:27:12,510
why? Why do you want me to?

406
00:27:13,870 --> 00:27:17,590
I mean, it's so interesting. And so I also interviewed

407
00:27:18,090 --> 00:27:22,030
a woman who who talked about her dad. And her dad

408
00:27:22,430 --> 00:27:26,950
was a. Was a pilot in World War II and got shot

409
00:27:27,450 --> 00:27:31,310
down in France in enemy territory. And,

410
00:27:31,630 --> 00:27:35,690
you know, it was occupied. And the French res. He happened

411
00:27:36,190 --> 00:27:39,770
to land in their backyard, and they hid him. And they went back

412
00:27:40,090 --> 00:27:43,770
to. She and her brother went back after their father died to go see

413
00:27:44,270 --> 00:27:47,610
if they could find where he was staying, and they

414
00:27:48,110 --> 00:27:51,490
happened to run into the family of the people

415
00:27:51,990 --> 00:27:55,130
that hid him, and they still had a piece of his plane. And this woman

416
00:27:55,770 --> 00:27:59,130
wasn't, like, shouting this story from the rooftops,

417
00:27:59,290 --> 00:28:03,540
because to her, it was just a

418
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:07,540
little story about how her dad was this really great person, but to

419
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:11,300
her, it was. He was still her dad. Yeah. And so that wasn't the basis

420
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:15,980
of her memories. She knew this story, and it was a nice

421
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,620
story, and it was really amazing to her, but she really didn't see

422
00:28:20,120 --> 00:28:23,260
how anybody outside of her family would find value in that story.

423
00:28:23,820 --> 00:28:27,500
And so it's really just incredible when

424
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:33,750
you start talking to people and you start digging into their

425
00:28:34,250 --> 00:28:37,510
life and the things that they've been through or the things that their family has

426
00:28:38,010 --> 00:28:41,550
been through, what will actually come out when people not

427
00:28:42,050 --> 00:28:45,870
realizing what a big deal that is. Yeah. I remember listening

428
00:28:46,370 --> 00:28:50,030
to both those episodes you just referenced, and I remember

429
00:28:50,190 --> 00:28:53,470
just being, you know, jaw dropped,

430
00:28:53,790 --> 00:28:57,360
just, wow, goosebumps, the whole thing. And.

431
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:02,280
And like you said, like, they. Especially the woman with

432
00:29:02,780 --> 00:29:06,160
the pilot father, like, it was her life and it wasn't.

433
00:29:06,660 --> 00:29:10,000
She didn't think she had some extraordinary story to tell. But the way that everything

434
00:29:10,159 --> 00:29:13,800
lined up and meeting the family, like, we should definitely tag these episodes

435
00:29:14,300 --> 00:29:17,600
in the show notes because they're definitely two of my favorite episodes,

436
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,760
but I could say that about most of the episodes on the show. So really,

437
00:29:22,260 --> 00:29:25,720
just if you haven't hit them all, go back and listen to the previous 99

438
00:29:26,220 --> 00:29:30,820
episod. Yes. But while we're talking about the

439
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:35,580
show and all the episodes that we've had so far, you're actually taking the.

440
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:39,540
Not the podcast, but you're launching a new endeavor in light of the

441
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:44,060
podcast out of the podcast. So let's talk about that, because I

442
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,820
personally find this to be very exciting. I'm so excited about this,

443
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,820
and actually, it's kind of the perfect segue, because that story

444
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,920
with the pilot father, her story

445
00:29:56,420 --> 00:30:00,040
was so compelling to me because one

446
00:30:00,540 --> 00:30:04,480
of the reasons that I started this podcast was because of two of my grandfathers

447
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:08,440
and their stories. Yeah. By the time I started the

448
00:30:08,940 --> 00:30:13,040
podcast, both of them had passed. They were both incredible

449
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,600
people. And I hope to Talk about them more

450
00:30:17,100 --> 00:30:23,050
in depth in future episodes. But I

451
00:30:23,550 --> 00:30:26,930
grew up with them telling their stories to us, to me

452
00:30:27,430 --> 00:30:30,730
and my family. And I loved them. I loved their stories.

453
00:30:31,230 --> 00:30:34,170
And some of them were so repetitive, especially towards the end of their lives.

454
00:30:34,250 --> 00:30:37,850
You know, they got a little repetitive with the same stories, but I

455
00:30:38,350 --> 00:30:42,250
loved them. And it was like being brought into a

456
00:30:42,750 --> 00:30:46,370
totally different world. You know, my one grandfather grew up in South

457
00:30:46,870 --> 00:30:49,600
Philly, Italian immigrant family,

458
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,440
poor, dirt poor. Started working at 7 years old.

459
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,840
Like, his stories were so surreal to me because

460
00:30:57,340 --> 00:31:02,240
it was a life I could never imagine. Right. You know, my other grandfather was

461
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:06,160
a Hungarian immigrant and was

462
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,920
in Communists, a Communist prison for four years and

463
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:13,600
ended up escaping and escaping to America eventually.

464
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,740
And, you know, came to America and became a nuclear

465
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,940
physicist at the University of Penn, as one does,

466
00:31:22,140 --> 00:31:22,780
you know.

467
00:31:25,980 --> 00:31:29,700
And so these stories were such

468
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,260
a big part of my life in my childhood. And then they.

469
00:31:33,660 --> 00:31:36,140
And I felt like I knew them really well, right?

470
00:31:36,940 --> 00:31:40,100
And then they both passed, and it was like all

471
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:44,300
of the sudden, their voices were gone. I didn't have

472
00:31:44,540 --> 00:31:46,140
the ability to ask any more.

473
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:51,200
And it felt like, on one

474
00:31:51,700 --> 00:31:55,240
hand, I felt super fortunate that they both talked about themselves

475
00:31:55,740 --> 00:31:58,240
as much as they did and their lives as much as they did. But on

476
00:31:58,740 --> 00:32:01,720
the other hand, I felt like, well, that's it. It's over.

477
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:05,400
No more stories. No more stories. But not just that. Like,

478
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:09,960
no one else would know about these people if I didn't

479
00:32:10,460 --> 00:32:13,720
and my family didn't continue to talk about them. And so.

480
00:32:13,810 --> 00:32:17,490
So I look at the two of them, very different people, and I'm

481
00:32:17,990 --> 00:32:21,490
like, their lives were incredible. Like, the things that they did were incredible.

482
00:32:22,290 --> 00:32:26,210
And even people that knew them didn't know these

483
00:32:26,710 --> 00:32:30,370
stories about them necessarily. And so it

484
00:32:30,870 --> 00:32:34,850
became this thing where I was like, it's really sad to think that

485
00:32:35,410 --> 00:32:39,050
no one else will know these people because they will be lost to

486
00:32:39,550 --> 00:32:43,010
time. Right. If you're not in the exact right place and right time in history,

487
00:32:43,490 --> 00:32:47,150
you don't get a biography written about you. Right. Or a movie made about your

488
00:32:47,650 --> 00:32:51,150
life. And that doesn't mean that your life and your story isn't worthwhile.

489
00:32:51,230 --> 00:32:55,310
It's just that you, you know, weren't the

490
00:32:55,810 --> 00:32:57,390
lucky chosen one. Right.

491
00:32:58,590 --> 00:33:01,790
Because there are so many people that have done so many incredible

492
00:33:01,870 --> 00:33:05,670
things that we don't know their stories. And I

493
00:33:06,170 --> 00:33:09,310
think that's one of the important things I think about, you know, traditions,

494
00:33:10,030 --> 00:33:14,710
cultural traditions, where oral storytelling in

495
00:33:15,210 --> 00:33:18,950
the vein of myths and legends is so popular

496
00:33:19,030 --> 00:33:22,150
as a way to honor the past and

497
00:33:22,390 --> 00:33:25,870
tradition and ancestors and I think it's such a beautiful

498
00:33:26,370 --> 00:33:30,390
and human thing. So when the woman,

499
00:33:30,550 --> 00:33:34,310
her name's sue, by the way, stopped referring to her as

500
00:33:34,810 --> 00:33:39,110
a woman, when sue was telling me her story about her father, I just

501
00:33:40,370 --> 00:33:44,130
really resonated with that. And so one of the things

502
00:33:44,210 --> 00:33:47,850
that has come out of this is that not everybody

503
00:33:48,350 --> 00:33:51,650
wants to be on a podcast and have their story publicly broadcast.

504
00:33:52,130 --> 00:33:55,770
Totally get that. Totally understand that. But it doesn't

505
00:33:56,270 --> 00:33:59,050
mean that they don't want their story recorded or that their families don't want their

506
00:33:59,550 --> 00:34:02,930
story recorded for posterity. So I'm actually launching

507
00:34:03,250 --> 00:34:06,530
a business that was really born out of this

508
00:34:07,030 --> 00:34:10,850
idea of the human experience. And so it's called the Human Experience Legacies.

509
00:34:11,390 --> 00:34:15,550
And it is a private, curated interview

510
00:34:16,050 --> 00:34:19,790
experience where I will come to you in person and

511
00:34:20,030 --> 00:34:22,750
we will have a conversation about your life,

512
00:34:23,630 --> 00:34:27,429
and that will be turned into an heirloom keepsake

513
00:34:27,929 --> 00:34:31,470
for your family and friends and whoever it is that wants to keep

514
00:34:31,970 --> 00:34:35,430
that story in posterity. That's so awesome. I love

515
00:34:35,930 --> 00:34:39,590
this personally. I've told you, I would love for you to interview both of my

516
00:34:40,090 --> 00:34:44,010
parents. They didn't tell a lot of stories about

517
00:34:44,510 --> 00:34:48,330
themselves when I was a kid, but now as an adult, I'm hearing the

518
00:34:48,830 --> 00:34:52,170
wild tales of their lives. And I love it.

519
00:34:52,670 --> 00:34:56,770
And I. I love hearing it in their own voice. And that's

520
00:34:57,270 --> 00:35:00,570
the thing, I think, that's so key about

521
00:35:01,070 --> 00:35:04,650
what you're doing, is they can continue to tell their

522
00:35:05,150 --> 00:35:08,810
stories in their own voice, and it's not just being passed down.

523
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,520
You get to hear the little, you know, their laugh and their

524
00:35:14,020 --> 00:35:17,000
smile and their sadness or whatever their emotion like,

525
00:35:17,500 --> 00:35:21,400
as they're telling their story. So how can people sign up for this?

526
00:35:21,900 --> 00:35:26,680
Yeah, so I have a website, the hxlegacies.com,

527
00:35:27,180 --> 00:35:31,040
which we'll link in the show notes. And there is a Instagram

528
00:35:31,540 --> 00:35:35,240
page at the HX Legacies. I'm going to be honest, social media

529
00:35:35,740 --> 00:35:39,230
is not really my game. So it's not. Not super active,

530
00:35:39,730 --> 00:35:42,750
but you can always get in touch with me there, if that's easy.

531
00:35:43,230 --> 00:35:47,510
But there's contact information on the website that'll be linked as well. But I

532
00:35:48,010 --> 00:35:51,590
think that, once again, we don't realize how

533
00:35:52,090 --> 00:35:56,190
much of our lives inspire other people. And so to

534
00:35:56,690 --> 00:36:00,710
be able to pass that as a gift to your family for

535
00:36:01,210 --> 00:36:04,670
future generations is so incredible. I actually,

536
00:36:05,230 --> 00:36:08,980
one of my grandfathers, I interviewed

537
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:13,540
him, this was pre2020, so the.

538
00:36:13,700 --> 00:36:16,580
The Human Experience was not called the Human Experience,

539
00:36:17,380 --> 00:36:20,180
but it was this, like, germinating idea.

540
00:36:20,260 --> 00:36:23,860
Okay. And My one grandfather had

541
00:36:23,940 --> 00:36:27,620
passed already and I knew that my other grandfather was

542
00:36:27,940 --> 00:36:31,780
coming to the end of his life. And so I made

543
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:35,300
this decision to interview him kind of on a whim.

544
00:36:36,020 --> 00:36:40,150
And it is not as comprehensive as I would have liked,

545
00:36:40,950 --> 00:36:44,070
but I have it. And it was two months

546
00:36:44,570 --> 00:36:48,070
before he passed. And I'm so grateful because

547
00:36:48,310 --> 00:36:52,070
I do. I have his voice. I have his voice telling his stories

548
00:36:52,570 --> 00:36:56,150
and with his inflection and his emotion. And it's a wonderful,

549
00:36:56,310 --> 00:37:00,630
beautiful thing. So there's a lot of storytelling like

550
00:37:01,670 --> 00:37:05,030
mediums out there, right. You know, like everybody knows about storyworth.

551
00:37:05,350 --> 00:37:08,120
There's a lot of things that have come out on are that are similar.

552
00:37:08,620 --> 00:37:12,360
The journals and the prompts and stuff like that. And so I

553
00:37:13,240 --> 00:37:16,840
no hate to that. I think it's great. Any way that anybody can be

554
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:20,560
storytelling, I think is valuable. So do

555
00:37:21,060 --> 00:37:25,520
whatever works for you. What I found is that because

556
00:37:26,020 --> 00:37:29,840
even some of them now you can record yourself, they're not just writing

557
00:37:30,340 --> 00:37:33,800
ones. The writing. The writing is hard.

558
00:37:34,500 --> 00:37:37,820
It takes a lot of time. But with

559
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:43,860
both of them, they come in like

560
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:47,900
pieces. Right. It's not a one and done thing. And so it takes a lot

561
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,580
of motivation to do it. And so I've spoken to a lot of people that

562
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:55,620
have gifted something like this to a loved one and the loved one just

563
00:37:56,120 --> 00:38:00,180
doesn't do it. Right. And again, it just takes a lot of motivation

564
00:38:00,340 --> 00:38:03,520
to sit down and actually come up

565
00:38:04,020 --> 00:38:07,560
with these stories and really dig into this because it

566
00:38:08,060 --> 00:38:10,840
is an emotional labor to do it.

567
00:38:11,340 --> 00:38:14,000
Right. Like, not every memory is a happy memory.

568
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:17,200
And even if they are, you know,

569
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:21,720
it is a physical working to actually have

570
00:38:22,220 --> 00:38:26,320
these conversations. I will tell you, I usually need a nap after my interview.

571
00:38:28,240 --> 00:38:31,600
So, Kesh, you're gonna go home and take a nap. Sounds good to.

572
00:38:33,420 --> 00:38:37,020
Um. And so again, you know, do whatever works for you.

573
00:38:37,420 --> 00:38:40,540
But this is a very intentional and curated

574
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:44,180
thing to say. You know, we're gonna sit down once. Yeah. And I'm gonna stay

575
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:47,020
with you until we've told your story. Yeah.

576
00:38:47,900 --> 00:38:51,700
But we're gonna get as much out of this as possible and we're

577
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:55,860
gonna take us where the conversation takes us. And I think that it's such

578
00:38:56,360 --> 00:39:00,380
a beautiful thing to be able to sit down with somebody and actually

579
00:39:00,460 --> 00:39:04,140
have interaction and conversation. It makes

580
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:09,800
more interactive and it addresses things that you necessarily

581
00:39:10,300 --> 00:39:13,920
wouldn't think of to address. You know, you're telling a story and you

582
00:39:14,420 --> 00:39:17,560
think that this is the way it goes. But a question pops up and now

583
00:39:18,060 --> 00:39:21,319
you are taken down this little bunny trail. But it just Makes it that much

584
00:39:21,819 --> 00:39:25,320
more interesting. So. So, yeah, I'm really excited about it.

585
00:39:25,820 --> 00:39:28,600
I think that it can be really valuable for people.

586
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:32,280
And I know it's something that I personally value,

587
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:36,050
and so I really, really believe in its

588
00:39:36,550 --> 00:39:40,090
power. That's awesome. Yeah. It's like you're really asking people to

589
00:39:40,590 --> 00:39:44,410
give the gift of themselves. And I know for some people that might be hard

590
00:39:44,910 --> 00:39:49,010
to wrap their head around, that someone finds so

591
00:39:49,510 --> 00:39:52,890
much value in them and their story that they would want that.

592
00:39:53,390 --> 00:39:56,410
But we do. Like you said, we all have a story to tell.

593
00:39:56,890 --> 00:40:00,250
They're not all going to be turned into a Hollywood feature film,

594
00:40:00,650 --> 00:40:03,950
but there's a lot more stories. I'm realizing

595
00:40:04,450 --> 00:40:07,990
from listening to the episodes of the Human Experience over the last three years

596
00:40:09,190 --> 00:40:13,150
that there's a lot more stories that of everyday people that

597
00:40:13,650 --> 00:40:17,109
are actually really incredible, that really could be told on a

598
00:40:17,609 --> 00:40:21,030
larger scale if they chose to or if they had the platform to.

599
00:40:22,470 --> 00:40:26,550
So, yeah, it's awesome that you are starting the legacies

600
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:31,640
kind of operation and I look forward

601
00:40:32,140 --> 00:40:34,760
to how that's gonna go, that venture.

602
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,920
Is there anything else that you wanna say before I ask you one final question?

603
00:40:39,420 --> 00:40:43,520
Oh, nice. This is what I get when an

604
00:40:44,020 --> 00:40:46,920
actual person that listens to the podcast gets to be in charge.

605
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:50,280
I love it. I need to get you some. Some swag now as a.

606
00:40:50,780 --> 00:40:54,080
As a host. That's right. That's right. I have a hat. She does have a

607
00:40:54,580 --> 00:40:58,550
hat that she had made. I made my own hat. Have hats made as well.

608
00:40:59,050 --> 00:41:02,990
So it's awesome. Yeah. I think,

609
00:41:03,550 --> 00:41:07,710
you know, the one thing that I think about with this

610
00:41:08,210 --> 00:41:13,030
whole journey over the past several years is that it's

611
00:41:13,530 --> 00:41:16,590
been a lot of hard work. It's been a lot of tears

612
00:41:16,670 --> 00:41:20,270
shed. It's been a lot of, you know,

613
00:41:20,670 --> 00:41:24,430
I don't know if I have it in me to keep pushing forward

614
00:41:24,590 --> 00:41:28,110
because everything feels like it's too much.

615
00:41:28,650 --> 00:41:31,730
And not in a bad way, but just in the way that, like, life is

616
00:41:32,230 --> 00:41:35,850
busy. Yeah. Life be life in all the time. It doesn't stop.

617
00:41:36,730 --> 00:41:40,010
And so I. I guess a year or two ago,

618
00:41:40,650 --> 00:41:43,530
I kind of had to.

619
00:41:43,770 --> 00:41:47,450
Had to take a step back and look at what

620
00:41:47,950 --> 00:41:50,810
I was doing and say, oh, my God.

621
00:41:52,570 --> 00:41:56,210
What I wanted, what I had dreamed of has

622
00:41:56,710 --> 00:42:00,250
actually happened. Yeah, it's happening. And that

623
00:42:00,750 --> 00:42:04,210
was kind of mind blowing to me because I had

624
00:42:04,710 --> 00:42:08,130
this idea in my head of what it would feel like when my dreams came

625
00:42:08,630 --> 00:42:12,210
true. Right. Like that this is

626
00:42:12,710 --> 00:42:16,010
gonna sound crazy, that there would be peace in my life. Right.

627
00:42:16,410 --> 00:42:19,610
Like when my dreams come True, I'm gonna feel. At least

628
00:42:20,110 --> 00:42:22,020
part of me is gonna feel like I've arrived.

629
00:42:23,060 --> 00:42:26,660
And when my dreams come true, all of these metrics

630
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:29,780
are going to be hit, right? Like I'm going to hit all of these points.

631
00:42:30,180 --> 00:42:34,340
That's not true. And so, like, just because

632
00:42:34,420 --> 00:42:37,860
the vision you had in your head about what your dream is,

633
00:42:39,620 --> 00:42:43,020
just because that doesn't fully get realized, doesn't mean that

634
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:46,260
your dreams aren't happening and they aren't a reality.

635
00:42:46,580 --> 00:42:50,840
So, for instance, you know, the big dream

636
00:42:51,340 --> 00:42:54,000
is that the podcast is self sustainable,

637
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:59,120
that I don't have to have another job to be able to do

638
00:42:59,620 --> 00:43:02,840
the podcast. Because it cost me

639
00:43:03,340 --> 00:43:06,880
a lot of money to do this podcast for multiple reasons,

640
00:43:07,380 --> 00:43:10,520
but not least of which is that I travel to everybody I

641
00:43:11,020 --> 00:43:14,960
interview. And I have gone to Kenya to interview people.

642
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:18,540
I've been, you know, in something like I

643
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:22,660
have to actually count again. But something like it's more than 10 countries

644
00:43:22,980 --> 00:43:25,860
that I've interviewed people in, not to mention states.

645
00:43:26,020 --> 00:43:29,780
In the States. Yeah. And, you know, it's hotel stays and it's,

646
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:33,700
you know, gas and flights and trains and meals

647
00:43:33,860 --> 00:43:37,700
and just, you know, living. And I don't

648
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:40,580
regret a single moment of it. But it's expensive.

649
00:43:41,860 --> 00:43:44,960
And then to produce a podcast isn't free.

650
00:43:45,030 --> 00:43:48,310
Free. So compared to the travel cost,

651
00:43:48,810 --> 00:43:52,550
it's really not that much money. But. But it's not free either.

652
00:43:53,110 --> 00:43:56,510
And so, you know, the. The dream starting out is like,

653
00:43:57,010 --> 00:43:59,950
yeah, and then it gets discovered and everybody loves it and, you know, it makes

654
00:44:00,450 --> 00:44:02,590
all of this money and then I don't have to. I don't have to have

655
00:44:03,090 --> 00:44:07,030
another job. Like this could be my job. But that didn't happen yet.

656
00:44:07,510 --> 00:44:11,520
Yet, sure. Yeah. But that

657
00:44:12,020 --> 00:44:16,440
doesn't mean that the rest of it hasn't come true, because the

658
00:44:16,940 --> 00:44:20,480
reality is that I have a job that is willing to allow

659
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:23,840
me to work remotely for literally months at a

660
00:44:24,340 --> 00:44:28,160
time, and that allows me to be flexible

661
00:44:28,240 --> 00:44:32,120
with my hours and my schedule so

662
00:44:32,620 --> 00:44:35,600
that I can prioritize travel and interviews.

663
00:44:37,240 --> 00:44:40,840
I am able to travel to different

664
00:44:41,340 --> 00:44:43,160
places and, you know,

665
00:44:43,720 --> 00:44:47,560
monetarily and physically and emotionally,

666
00:44:48,060 --> 00:44:51,840
like, I have the ability to get to these places and to do all of

667
00:44:52,340 --> 00:44:55,640
these different things. You know, I go to these pla. These countries,

668
00:44:56,140 --> 00:44:59,480
these states, whatever, and I'm not just visiting the person there.

669
00:44:59,980 --> 00:45:03,800
I get to go see a new place. I have somebody that

670
00:45:04,300 --> 00:45:05,400
watches my dog for me.

671
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:08,480
That's a whole other story.

672
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:13,760
Fitz could be his own episode. Yes, he could.

673
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:19,000
And so, like, I'm doing everything that I set

674
00:45:19,500 --> 00:45:22,680
out to do. It doesn't look exactly like what I thought it

675
00:45:23,180 --> 00:45:26,320
would look like, but I'm doing it. You are? Yeah. And I'm not, like,

676
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:30,240
while there's stress involved, because, again, it's life,

677
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:33,360
I'm not struggling to do it. Right. Like. Like,

678
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:36,800
it is a joy. It is an honor and a privilege to be

679
00:45:37,300 --> 00:45:40,160
able to do this the way that I'm doing it.

680
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:44,440
And so, yeah, I think when I think about dreams,

681
00:45:44,940 --> 00:45:49,319
I have to constantly remind myself that just because it

682
00:45:49,819 --> 00:45:52,880
doesn't look like what you thought it would look like doesn't mean they haven't come

683
00:45:53,380 --> 00:45:57,040
true or that they're not attainable. Yeah. Just because it's hard doesn't mean it's not

684
00:45:57,540 --> 00:46:00,960
happening. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, just because you're not just,

685
00:46:01,460 --> 00:46:05,410
like, sitting pretty in the. This, you know, huge house,

686
00:46:05,570 --> 00:46:08,770
which is not something I want anyway, but, like, just because you're

687
00:46:09,270 --> 00:46:12,650
not in the place. The exact place you thought you would be when all of

688
00:46:13,150 --> 00:46:16,490
these things are happening, doesn't negate the fact that they are happening.

689
00:46:16,990 --> 00:46:20,330
Right. Yeah. So I think that when we

690
00:46:20,830 --> 00:46:23,650
talk about chasing our dreams and we talk about living them out,

691
00:46:24,150 --> 00:46:28,850
you know, it is a lot of hard work. It is a lot of intention.

692
00:46:29,410 --> 00:46:32,930
There's sacrifice involved. Right. Like, I put

693
00:46:33,430 --> 00:46:36,610
all of my resources into the podcast and

694
00:46:37,110 --> 00:46:40,970
traveling, and I'm happy to do it, but then

695
00:46:41,470 --> 00:46:43,850
I don't have other things. I don't do other things.

696
00:46:45,770 --> 00:46:49,050
And so there is. There's personal sacrifice involved. There is.

697
00:46:49,690 --> 00:46:53,730
There are decisions that you have to make to be able to move

698
00:46:54,230 --> 00:46:58,370
forward. You have to be able to prioritize your time. You have to sometimes

699
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:01,880
cry a little bit because things feel so impossible,

700
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:06,600
but you can get there. And so it sounds super cheesy,

701
00:47:07,100 --> 00:47:09,560
but I think it is really important to just say, like,

702
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:14,800
there is no one path to making

703
00:47:15,300 --> 00:47:18,280
things work. Yeah, that's true. Well,

704
00:47:18,780 --> 00:47:21,960
in light of your experience, Jen. Yes.

705
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:25,480
What does compassion look like to you?

706
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:29,110
Ooh. You know,

707
00:47:29,610 --> 00:47:33,710
I think about all of the people that have answered this question and

708
00:47:34,590 --> 00:47:38,510
the similarities and the differences with the answer

709
00:47:39,230 --> 00:47:42,790
one, the reason that I started asking this question. Let's.

710
00:47:43,290 --> 00:47:46,750
Let's. Let's. Sure. Let's start there. Let me start there.

711
00:47:47,250 --> 00:47:49,830
Let's go all the way back. No, the reason I started asking this question is

712
00:47:50,330 --> 00:47:53,060
because I realized that after my divorce,

713
00:47:54,970 --> 00:47:58,610
I had this vein of empathy, this. Well of

714
00:47:59,110 --> 00:48:02,090
empathy that was tapped into because of my experience.

715
00:48:02,490 --> 00:48:05,530
Yeah. That I didn't have before. I didn't have access to

716
00:48:06,030 --> 00:48:09,970
it. And it wasn't that I

717
00:48:10,470 --> 00:48:14,170
couldn't try to have understanding for somebody

718
00:48:14,490 --> 00:48:18,410
in a similar situation. But I

719
00:48:18,910 --> 00:48:22,730
never would have been able to say, man, I know what that feels like

720
00:48:23,210 --> 00:48:27,170
on some level. And so I think it's important

721
00:48:27,670 --> 00:48:31,490
to know that we can't have those

722
00:48:31,990 --> 00:48:35,290
wells of empathy for everything. Right. Because we don't know what it

723
00:48:35,790 --> 00:48:39,570
feels like to do everything. To do everything, to have all of these experiences.

724
00:48:40,050 --> 00:48:44,010
And one of the reasons that I asked this question to everybody is

725
00:48:44,510 --> 00:48:48,050
because I think your experience does inform how you

726
00:48:48,550 --> 00:48:52,210
view empathy and what you have access to within

727
00:48:52,290 --> 00:48:56,090
compassion and empathy. And I don't mean that you have to have a

728
00:48:56,590 --> 00:48:59,650
super traumatic experience to have compassion. I don't believe that at all.

729
00:49:00,130 --> 00:49:04,450
But what I will say is that your

730
00:49:04,950 --> 00:49:08,210
experiences allow

731
00:49:08,290 --> 00:49:11,810
you to be a landing

732
00:49:12,310 --> 00:49:16,970
place for somebody else. Your experiences give

733
00:49:17,470 --> 00:49:20,730
you the expertise

734
00:49:20,890 --> 00:49:26,010
and the authority to welcome

735
00:49:26,510 --> 00:49:30,250
somebody in and to care for them. Yeah. And I

736
00:49:30,750 --> 00:49:31,850
think for everything else,

737
00:49:34,170 --> 00:49:38,010
my personal belief or thing

738
00:49:38,510 --> 00:49:43,170
that I am working towards is it's

739
00:49:43,670 --> 00:49:47,520
okay. And there is an

740
00:49:48,020 --> 00:49:52,200
honor in just letting something

741
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:56,440
sit with you. Right. And so compassion

742
00:49:56,940 --> 00:50:00,280
to me is if you have a similar experience,

743
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:04,200
if you have that well, and you'll know if you have it right.

744
00:50:04,700 --> 00:50:07,880
If you have that well and you can tap into it, let that overflow.

745
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:11,790
Let that overflow into somebody else's up. If you don't have

746
00:50:12,290 --> 00:50:16,350
access to that well, just be somebody

747
00:50:16,670 --> 00:50:20,310
that is able to absorb whatever you're

748
00:50:20,810 --> 00:50:24,350
being told. You don't have to have a

749
00:50:24,850 --> 00:50:29,470
response. You don't have to have advice or trying

750
00:50:29,970 --> 00:50:33,430
to fix it. You can't fix it. When somebody is in need

751
00:50:33,930 --> 00:50:37,230
of compassion, they don't need fixing. They need a soft place to land.

752
00:50:37,910 --> 00:50:41,910
And even if you can't access that soft place,

753
00:50:42,310 --> 00:50:45,790
what you can do is you can bear witness and

754
00:50:46,290 --> 00:50:49,830
you can lament. And I think lamentation is something

755
00:50:49,910 --> 00:50:53,910
that we are very uncomfortable with because

756
00:50:54,410 --> 00:50:57,270
there is no quick fix for it. There is no end.

757
00:50:57,770 --> 00:51:01,030
It is a deep sorrow. And,

758
00:51:02,390 --> 00:51:06,050
you know, the more that I explore the

759
00:51:06,550 --> 00:51:09,730
idea of lament, I think

760
00:51:09,810 --> 00:51:13,650
that it is an act of compassion itself.

761
00:51:14,290 --> 00:51:18,050
And I also think it's an act of worship when

762
00:51:18,550 --> 00:51:22,290
we can sit with somebody and just try to

763
00:51:23,810 --> 00:51:27,090
feel this depth of sorrow for their pain

764
00:51:27,570 --> 00:51:30,200
and not try to do anything else with it. Yeah.

765
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:34,280
I think that that is how we

766
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:37,720
find connection across suffering.

767
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:43,000
Yeah. No, it's beautiful. I definitely agree with you. I do think

768
00:51:43,500 --> 00:51:47,040
that being able to lament is a beautiful way, a beautiful form of

769
00:51:47,540 --> 00:51:50,520
worship. So I love the way that you put that. Well, Jen,

770
00:51:51,020 --> 00:51:54,120
it's been an honor to interview you for your podcast. Thank you.

771
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:58,320
I'm so happy that you did this. Yeah. Kesh is

772
00:51:58,820 --> 00:52:02,400
a dear friend and I know she listens, so it's so, it's so

773
00:52:02,900 --> 00:52:06,680
amazing to know that, you know, my mom and one other person are

774
00:52:07,180 --> 00:52:10,800
listening to the episodes. Yeah,

775
00:52:11,300 --> 00:52:14,000
it's my pleasure. And I, I don't listen to many podcasts at all,

776
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:18,000
so that speaks volumes. You made it. But, well, I look

777
00:52:18,500 --> 00:52:22,120
forward to the next hundred episodes. I look forward to the next three years

778
00:52:22,620 --> 00:52:25,800
and I look forward to the launch of Legacies. So guys, be sure to check

779
00:52:26,300 --> 00:52:29,440
that out and take advantage of this really cool opportunity.

780
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:32,720
Yeah, once in a lifetime. That's right. Thank you.

781
00:52:36,240 --> 00:52:39,960
Thank you for listening to the human experience. Everyone has

782
00:52:40,460 --> 00:52:43,440
a story and I'd love to hear yours. So be sure to check out the

783
00:52:43,940 --> 00:52:47,600
show notes for more information about how to stay in touch, do good and